not really 10% is pretty much the norm and if it's advertise you count it as part of the meal price.
discretionary service charge
- Thread starter DAIR
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not really 10% is pretty much the norm and if it's advertise you count it as part of the meal price.
Associate
lol you tight gits. My attitude is that if the person is waiting then they need the few pounds in a tip far more than I do. I waited for a couple of years in high school and uni and I hated it, so I sympathize.
I've heard that you (the waiters) don't even receive the monies and that any tips go straight to the company. Unless you pay the waiter his or her tip in cash.
Please note that this is what I've heard. Please feel free to correct me.
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That will depend company to company. Even cash tips don't guarantee anything.
Associate
Like Glaucus said, it might go on in some restaurants, but I believe a few years ago there was some fuss kicked up about them using tips as part of their wages instead of paying a proper minimum wage and legislation was brought in to make this illegal.
Damn bloody right it's begging to pay salary costs where business owners couldn't be bothered while pocketing all the loot (at the same time with some trying all they can to avoid/evade tax).
Right up Dolph's street that one I imagine.
If the bill includes a discretionary charge, then I do not leave a tip. If it doesn't then I do leave a tip (10% of bill total). If there is an issue with the food or service then I make a complaint and pay neither and expect either a full or partial refund depending on the nature of the complaint and how it is dealt with.
Unfortunately many waiters are very low paid (often at minimum) for long and unsociable hours...I understand the "well they can get another job" argument so it needn't be repeated back to me, I simply think that if the service is good and the experience is enhanced by that service then a tip is warranted.
Each to their own of course.
Unfortunately many waiters are very low paid (often at minimum) for long and unsociable hours...I understand the "well they can get another job" argument so it needn't be repeated back to me, I simply think that if the service is good and the experience is enhanced by that service then a tip is warranted.
Each to their own of course.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I tip if I receive exceptional service above and beyond that I would otherwise expect. Otherwise I don't, the service is included in the price of the food, along with the cost of other business overheads such as rent, rates and heating. I do tip in the USA, even though the concept annoys me, because it isn't my country nor my culture therefore I feel I ought to conform.
Soldato
I never tip and don't get the concept.
Waiters & Waitresses earn more than the ladies who clean our toilets at work and I don't tip them for leaving a pristine pan, how is serving me food I've paid for any different?
Waiters & Waitresses earn more than the ladies who clean our toilets at work and I don't tip them for leaving a pristine pan, how is serving me food I've paid for any different?
Soldato
Back in a day service charge was invented by top tier restaurants to assure their waiters and barstaff, often helped by busboys and barmates, were properly tipped and rewarded for their work in the days when no minimum wage existed. The problem was two fold - on one hand, business model relied on waiters and barmans going out of their way to serve customer to the best of their abilities, and thus being tipped according to the service provided rather than paid equally by employer and thus discouraged from going out of their way to provide spectacular levels of customer care. On the other hand, around 80ies when credit cards became preferred method of payment and business expenses started to rely on printed invoicing, service and tip charges could no longer be included as part of "representation costs" charged by yappies with expenses accounts to the mothership, and the old custom of tipping in top tier restaurants simply died. Especially during lunch service.
With introduction of minimum wage and EU employment laws, service charge became a way for the restaurant to cleverly offset service and staff costs in relatively ruthless way. The method relies on the fact that clients paying £20 for three pieces of asparagus circled by a drip of malt vinegar and olive oil will be too embarrassed to request such charge to be removed from their bill in front of their peers.
One should be aware however, that service charge, in most cases, does not go to the waiter serving your table. Instead, in 99% of cases it is taken by the employer, taxed by inland revenue (unlike cash tip), covers the cost of laundry, written off cutlery/dishes/glasses during service, often expiry date food and wine losses, and then is divided among staff as part of staff wage according to some sort of internal distribution scheme or duty share. This method is called tronc points or tronc scheme, and is recognised by inland revenue as legal method of payment (as in base wage + tronc to create minimum wage).
Service charge used as service cost + tronc scheme is a horrible and scoundrel way of effectively offloading staff and floor service cost - anything that happens on the floor in terms of human force and hardware is no longer paid from owners/employers profits and instead is practically forced from customers pocket as an extra/off the menu charge under pretence of tip and then stolen from waiters/barman pocket.
The only way to end this, is to make it "dirty". A bad thing for restaurant to add to bill. Talk about it, write about it. Make it into party anecdote - call manager over to the table and ask whether the service charge goes to the service staff or whether it also pays for cutlery, table cloths and napkins before waiter is being paid and then "boo" them out for being scrooges. If it goes towards anything else than your waiters wage, ALWAYS request the charge (often as high as 13-20%) to be taken off your bill (if asked for reason just say the menu states your meal costs XX amount and that's the amount you are willing to pay for the meal) and then if service was indeed worth rewarding - TIP YOUR WAITER INSTEAD. That way employer will have to pay for the service costs and minimum wage just like any other business and tip will be tip on top of your waiters wage, instead of being part of their minimum wage.
With introduction of minimum wage and EU employment laws, service charge became a way for the restaurant to cleverly offset service and staff costs in relatively ruthless way. The method relies on the fact that clients paying £20 for three pieces of asparagus circled by a drip of malt vinegar and olive oil will be too embarrassed to request such charge to be removed from their bill in front of their peers.
One should be aware however, that service charge, in most cases, does not go to the waiter serving your table. Instead, in 99% of cases it is taken by the employer, taxed by inland revenue (unlike cash tip), covers the cost of laundry, written off cutlery/dishes/glasses during service, often expiry date food and wine losses, and then is divided among staff as part of staff wage according to some sort of internal distribution scheme or duty share. This method is called tronc points or tronc scheme, and is recognised by inland revenue as legal method of payment (as in base wage + tronc to create minimum wage).
Service charge used as service cost + tronc scheme is a horrible and scoundrel way of effectively offloading staff and floor service cost - anything that happens on the floor in terms of human force and hardware is no longer paid from owners/employers profits and instead is practically forced from customers pocket as an extra/off the menu charge under pretence of tip and then stolen from waiters/barman pocket.
The only way to end this, is to make it "dirty". A bad thing for restaurant to add to bill. Talk about it, write about it. Make it into party anecdote - call manager over to the table and ask whether the service charge goes to the service staff or whether it also pays for cutlery, table cloths and napkins before waiter is being paid and then "boo" them out for being scrooges. If it goes towards anything else than your waiters wage, ALWAYS request the charge (often as high as 13-20%) to be taken off your bill (if asked for reason just say the menu states your meal costs XX amount and that's the amount you are willing to pay for the meal) and then if service was indeed worth rewarding - TIP YOUR WAITER INSTEAD. That way employer will have to pay for the service costs and minimum wage just like any other business and tip will be tip on top of your waiters wage, instead of being part of their minimum wage.
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I'm usually not bothered. If it's on the bill then I'll leave it there.
As for tips, if there's a group of us, I don't mind putting in a quid or so for the waiter/waitress alongside everyone else.
If it's just me and the wench, there's no way I'm handing over a tenner.
As for tips, if there's a group of us, I don't mind putting in a quid or so for the waiter/waitress alongside everyone else.
If it's just me and the wench, there's no way I'm handing over a tenner.
Soldato
Pretty sure you get paid to do a job. Why would i give you more money than you are being paid just for doing your job. I don't tip my bus driver. I don't tip my postman. Why would i tip a waiter? (unless of course it's a huge group of people ordering a large amount of dishes and drinks and the waiter is being fantastic)
For the record i worked in a pub for 1 month and received one 'tip' in the form of a 'keep the change and buy yourself a pint' type of job. That was in my last night working and is probably why i got it. Never expected tips as i was being paid.
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Permabanned
This. I hated working as a waiter. It was always nice when someone left a tip, but if the manager saw it it went straight into their pocket. I got tipped 60 quid christmas before last and didn't ever see any of it
as I was too young to go to the works do it was paying for. When I asked what I would be getting they nearly fired me on the spot. Richardson's group restaurants are utter ***** to work at, food isn't that good either.
Permabanned
Because waiters get paid naff all. I was on 4 quid an hour until I turned 18. Time and a half on christmas, and that was it. Me and a few other members of staff (the hardworking ones) got treated like **** whilst the managers' favourites (usually female, the manager was a right perv) were given the cushy jobs.
I never expect to get tipped, but I like to think that I gave an exceptional service (I was told this by quite a few customers) and was sometimes rewarded for it. They actually said that I had to work christmas day else I would be fired (I wanted to stay with the family because I was only 17) and because I was young and definitely naive I went along with it. When I got tipped more than I actually earned that day I was over the moon, until the manager came over and asked for it. I said why, he said for the christmas do, I explained that I was too young and he then said, and I quote "I don't care. Do what you are told or you will lose your job." Apparently the party only came to about half of the total tips worth, no-one knows what happened to the rest of the cash.
I was so glad when I left that place, I much prefer working at Ladbrokes
Soldato
Young people are exploited like that in all areas of public service.
So do the people who stack the shelves in Sainsburys for you and serve you in HMV.
Yet you dont tip them.
Soldato
I was on minimum wage last summer when i worked in the pub. Some days it would work out less than that depending on how long it took people to leave and us to clear up. Not to mention it was 40 minutes walk away each way
Didn't expect more, it's not a challenging job. But then again waiting isn't exactly hard is it? Nor are most other jobs that get paid minimum or close to minimum wage. My argument still stands, if you're getting paid minimum wage why would i tip a waiter over any other job that pays that much? Exceptional service is of course a reason to tip. If you do more than your jobs worth i.e sorting out any issues quickly, dealing with odd requests or just down right not asking how my meal is every 3 seconds (can't ****ing stand this) then i'll leave a tip. I think the last 4 places i've eaten out i left a tip, although 1 was my birthday where i got several free drinks and another was luxury 3 course meals for under £15, but that's beside the point
i just don't see why it should be added to the bill automatically.[TW]Fox;20927324 said:
I think the key difference is you don't have a personal interaction with shelf stackers and while you do with cashiers in HMV, it's usually very brief.
It's just sort of a tradition and I don't understand why people care.
My job is easier than a lot of other less paid jobs and there are jobs easier than mine that pay better. What's the difference between that and a student who's a waiter earning more than a shelf stacker?
Also, there's no rule stating that you MUST tip or pay a service charge so what is the problem? If you don't want to then don't and when you hear or see others giving tips out, just carry on with your life.