discretionary service charge

Glaucus · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:15

v0n said:
snip.

cash tips can and are pooled as well and are also meant to be taxed.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/Taxes/WorkingAndPayingTax/DG_10026509

And as for someone say you are paying for food not service. Service in a nice restraunt is very much part of the experience. It isn't just about the food.

arknor · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:20

RationalGaze said:
lol you tight gits. My attitude is that if the person is waiting then they need the few pounds in a tip far more than I do. I waited for a couple of years in high school and uni and I hated it, so I sympathize.

yup just like when the postman knocks on my door because he has a something to deliver which exceeds the dimensions of my mail box, or when the courier comes along and has to wait for me to open the door and give him my autograph.

they deserve that tip , its hard earned , most would just card you and walk off! if you tip they wont do this! :rolleyes:

sounds like a fair comparrison np?

v0n · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:30

Glaucus said:
cash tips can and are pooled as well and are also meant to be taxed.

I'd rather leave the percentage of tip to my discretion and the "pooling" and "taxing" issues to be a matter between the waiter and his busboy and the waiter and his accountant. I refuse to acknowledge tip as a wage. It's a gratuity. It's an extra on top of the wage. It's my gift to the person who served me, for anything that I would consider above a call of duty dictated by their meagre wage. And as such I, personally, don't think it should be taxed. It's my money, I chose to give to another person outside of my bill. It's like a money you put into baskers hat or throw into fountain. It should not be taxed. Taxing it might be guarded by law, but bad rule is no rule at all and should not be encouraged. Anything I can do to help the waiter escape sharing my gift to him with taxman or his greedy employer - I will do. And I would encourage all of you do the same. Tip should be tip. It's not a wage. Refuse service charges and if service deserved it - tip instead. Tip quietly and secretly if you have to. Make sure the waiter understands it's for him. You are rewarding him. You paid the cook and owner for great food already in the bill. It's the right thing to do.

Glaucus · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:31

It isn't at the discretion of the waiter you tip though. A lot of places pool all tips and are split between all waiters and kitchen staff.

Rameses · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:32

Grimley said:
If this is included in the bill, then I don't give a tip.

This to be honest, if they can 'price' a tip then they're not getting an additional one, and I'm not stingy with tips in the first place.

wez130 · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:33

Tips are normally advertised as one of the bonuses of said job as a waiter / chef, i receive tips as one of my bonuses, i get about £45 / month on top of my normal wage after tax. It's only the same as any other career where you get bonuses for good work / performance related bonuses etc. Legally they should be taxed but morally it's wrong, why should the government take a cut of the 'reward' for my good food or the waiter/ess's good service? I pay my taxes already, and where i work now is the only place i've worked where they are taxed.

However, i do think it's wrong for a company to include a discretional service charge - it should be on the onus of the customer to leave a tip, not to ask for it to be removed!

FutileBreadMachine · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:36

arknor said:
yup just like when the postman knocks on my door because he has a something to deliver which exceeds the dimensions of my mail box, or when the courier comes along and has to wait for me to open the door and give him my autograph.

they deserve that tip , its hard earned , most would just card you and walk off! if you tip they wont do this!

sounds like a fair comparrison np?

If I had to pay to receive the item, then I would give the guy a cash tip, just as I do when I pay cash on delivery to a Dominos delivery person.

v0n · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:37

Glaucus said:
It isn't at the discretion of the waiter you tip though. A lot of places pool all tips and are split between all waiters and kitchen staff.

They shouldn't. You paid the chef for his food in bill. I tip waiter for his and his only work around my table. Forcing staff to pool tips is by default injustice. If waiter feels others helped, he will share his tips at his own discretion. Forced pooling should not be encouraged. Tip secretly if you have to.

Glaucus · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:38

v0n said:
They shouldn't. You paid the chef for his food in bill. I tip waiter for his and his only work around my table. Forcing staff to pool tips is by default injustice. It should not be encouraged. Tip secretly if you have to.

I agree, but that isn't how it works in a lot of places and giving it in cash means squat all.
Tipping secretly can cause even more issues if caught for the employee.

Shame the law didn't go further, or that there is a standard scheme you could sign up for and display the logo. To show that tips all go directly to your waiter.

v0n · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:39

Glaucus said:
I agree, but that isn't how it works in a lot of places and giving it in cash means squat all.

Well, at least we'll help the waiters in places where it does mean something. With service charge - it's always lost.

Glaucus · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:40

v0n said:
Well, at least we'll help the waiters in places where it does mean something. With service charge - it's always lost.

That isn't the case, it's not always lost. It's entirely dependent on the business.

v0n · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:47

Glaucus said:
That isn't the case, it's not always lost. It's entirely dependent on the business.

It's always lost - entirely or partially - because in form of service charge, at the very least - it's taxed and then pooled. Let your waiter decide whether he wants to share it or declare it.

OpenToSuggestions · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:49

Immsy said:
I nearly always remove them also. They already get paid for doing their job, dont need tipping anymore.

This.

Anyone in the UK gets paid at least the minimum wage. We do not work like the USA. I only tip for very good service or better. Average or above-average service gets no tip. Below average service and I want money off my bill.

Adding a £9 tip to the bill is taking the pee to be honest. It is up to me (the customer) if I want to tip!!

Randomface74 · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:51

I resent paying tips - nobody tips me for doing my job well, so f that.

Glaucus · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:51

v0n said:
It's always lost - entirely or partially - because in form of service charge, at the very least - it's taxed and then pooled. Let your waiter decide whether he wants to share it or declare it.

It's taxed just like cash tips,
As for polling no, that is upto the business. Some don't pool, many do even with cash. If it is pooled its subject to NI as well. If not then it's only subjected to tax

Tican · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:56

Minimum wage at our place and tips are dependant on situation they were given:

i.e. tip directly to the waiter/ess and specify it is for him/her then they keep it. Otherwise it goes into a pot and gets split at the end of the night with all of the front of house staff (not managers).

Destination · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:58

Grimley said:
If this is included in the bill, then I don't give a tip.

Tend to do this.

v0n · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:58

Glaucus said:
It's taxed just like cash tips,
As for polling no, that is upto the business. Some don't pool, many do even with cash. If it is pooled its subject to NI as well. If not then it's only subjected to tax

You will not find a single business that charges service charge and doesn't pool and use it for tronc system. I guarantee. Even the mightiest - Conran, top hotel chains and TV chef flagships around London screw their staff out of gratuity with tronc or variation of tronc system. If you can confirm one restaurant where service charge is given directly to the waiter, I pledge here and now: I will start paying service charges in all restaurants that have it from 2012 onwards.

I don't care what waiter does with his cash tip - it's up to him whether he wants to declare it or share it. If I can save one shmuck from declaring a tip to be taxed as wage, (it's a modern window tax to me, just because it's tax, it doesn't make it right) - then it was worth it. I have nothing to lose by giving him cash, and it will always be affected by either taxman or his employer if i give it to him as service charge. There is really nothing to argue about. It's black and white like a piano keyboard.

Slumberbox · 1 Jan 2012 at 21:59

Strife212 said:
Would never remove an included charge unless the service was actually poor. Would make me look like a cheapskate.

Agreed, 10% isn't that much really, one problem with cash tips is that the cash maybe pocketed by a single person and not divided equally between all the staff that contributed to your food and beverage, if everyone opted to remove the service charge then the restaurant would most likely increase the item costs, or reduce staff to barebones levels meaning that standards slip and people lose their jobs.

233 · 1 Jan 2012 at 22:06

Taxi driver here and I have to say that a good 95% off our customers give us a tip

I'm a generally pleasant and decent driver I make the effort to open doors and assist with bags but even so our customers as a rule always tip unless its a contract hire

Even that 2 minute cab ride to the station or tesco generally ends up with a 20% tip on top of the requested fare and with less sober clients that tends to be a fair bit higher

Curious as to why people are happy to tip a driver for doing the basics of not crashing between point a and b and doing no more than the bare minimum
For example today I made £286in hires and over £100 cash a bag of maltesers 2 bottles of bud and a coffee and donut in tips