**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

I feel like I've improved a lot since I got the game in September, but I still can't seem to get out of bronze on the ladder (been top 8 pretty much all the time). Although this could be blamed partly on other games coming along to halt my playing time and seeing me drop a few places in my league, perhaps even when I'm on the cusp of a promotion, I've picked up a running theme in pretty much every game I've lost.

I think the main thing holding me back in my play is my handling of engagements - my macro is fine, I'm almost always on more bases, more upgrades and have a higher supply than my opponent in mid to late game, but I consistently manage to get caught out by harrassment, my own harrassment not being damaging enough to make up for the resources I spent on it - the insanely fast response time of some of my opponents really is a surprise for supposedly the worst set of players on the ladder -, and worst of all the big engagement of death-balls (as it always comes down to in Bronze if the game goes on longer than 15 minutes) is almost always a total blunder on my part.

I'm always scouting, I do my best to hide my own "surprise" buildings / units like proxy pylons, Dark Shrine, Warp Prisms etc, I know which units beat which, and I'm fairly cautious about where I move my army (ie knowing where a Terran has sieged up, not going miles onto creep, being aware of air units floating around), but there's just something that happens to me when my units have to attack their units that feels like they're always handling the engagement better than me, and I need a really superior number of units or upgrades to come out on top. My handling of unit abilities (sentries, high templars etc.) isn't great, but I wouldn't call it terrible for a bronze either, and I don't think I've ever really been on the end of a great storm / fungal / EMP / nuke that I feel has been the big deciding factor in the game. It's generally basic attack-move units that seem to beat me.

I've got my early timings down to a tee; I can dictate how I open the game regardless of what the opponent does (unless it's some brilliantly devised rush / cheese that I'm not used to); and I reckon my macro is really solid in the early and mid-game (later on I lose focus a bit and my minerals tend to rocket a bit, but that's rarely why I lose). If the opponent turtles and plays defensively, as a lot do in Bronze, I'm fairly confident I can get a 200 supply army with upgrades way before him and will win the match pretty easily. I just feel that in some games I play, everything I'm good at - probably better than the opponent at - can be made redundant if the opposition just forces the game themselves and has the balls to simply engage, or even harrass, with me a little.
 
If your macro is as good a you think it is you wouldnt have any if those issues and will win regardless of engagement 99% of the time. I think the fact your still in bronze despite you feeling knowledgeable means you are missing a fundamental part of the game... Go back to the drawing board and stop trying to do everything
 
When I got out of bronze it was after beating 5 silver players in a row, so don't worry about promotions until you know you can do that.

How many games a week do you play? It's very hard to get further if you don't play atleast a few games a day on average I would say, both for your own experience and as far as I know the undisclosed ranking you have is judged over time, so you need to keep up (keep your bonus pool depeleted atleast).

It's hard to advise you that well, as I'm just a gold terran player, but I'd say keep practicing with aggressive builds, and if you're often ahead of bases like you say then you have to expect harrassment. Think of it this way, the blizzard system is meant to give you someone of equal overall skill, so if you're spending a lot of time and minerals building more bases/macro, where is his resources? In army and harrassment. Also you say you know what builds to go without scouting your enemey even, that's a bad habbit as eventually you're gonna come across builds that you have no chance of defending unless you know they're coming most of the time, then you adapt your build to best suit them.

Also you say you blunder on late game death balls but later say you always win if you get a maxed death ball? From a terran perspective it actually comes down to high tech units whether I win late game or not. If I'm maxed on bio/medivac and vikings to counter say collosi then you mix in several high templar with storm, it can completely change things if I'm not ready with ghosts or mess up in the slightest. If you do go collosi make sure to aim for 5/6 and have stalkers (eventually with blink) to take out vikings, if your supplies were even you'd win every time.
 
PaddyMC89 said:
I feel like I've improved a lot since I got the game in September, but I still can't seem to get out of bronze on the ladder (been top 8 pretty much all the time). Although this could be blamed partly on other games coming along to halt my playing time and seeing me drop a few places in my league, perhaps even when I'm on the cusp of a promotion, I've picked up a running theme in pretty much every game I've lost.

I think the main thing holding me back in my play is my handling of engagements - my macro is fine, I'm almost always on more bases, more upgrades and have a higher supply than my opponent in mid to late game, but I consistently manage to get caught out by harrassment, my own harrassment not being damaging enough to make up for the resources I spent on it - the insanely fast response time of some of my opponents really is a surprise for supposedly the worst set of players on the ladder -, and worst of all the big engagement of death-balls (as it always comes down to in Bronze if the game goes on longer than 15 minutes) is almost always a total blunder on my part.

I'm always scouting, I do my best to hide my own "surprise" buildings / units like proxy pylons, Dark Shrine, Warp Prisms etc, I know which units beat which, and I'm fairly cautious about where I move my army (ie knowing where a Terran has sieged up, not going miles onto creep, being aware of air units floating around), but there's just something that happens to me when my units have to attack their units that feels like they're always handling the engagement better than me, and I need a really superior number of units or upgrades to come out on top. My handling of unit abilities (sentries, high templars etc.) isn't great, but I wouldn't call it terrible for a bronze either, and I don't think I've ever really been on the end of a great storm / fungal / EMP / nuke that I feel has been the big deciding factor in the game. It's generally basic attack-move units that seem to beat me.

I've got my early timings down to a tee; I can dictate how I open the game regardless of what the opponent does (unless it's some brilliantly devised rush / cheese that I'm not used to); and I reckon my macro is really solid in the early and mid-game (later on I lose focus a bit and my minerals tend to rocket a bit, but that's rarely why I lose). If the opponent turtles and plays defensively, as a lot do in Bronze, I'm fairly confident I can get a 200 supply army with upgrades way before him and will win the match pretty easily. I just feel that in some games I play, everything I'm good at - probably better than the opponent at - can be made redundant if the opposition just forces the game themselves and has the balls to simply engage, or even harrass, with me a little.
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Can you post a replay or two? Reasonably solid macro play should smash players up to platinum league 99% of the time in my experience..
 
any guys want to play some 1v1 to practice say around 8pm maybe 2/3 games most nights.

i won my first placement and winning the 2nd easily but I threw them as i didnt wanna end up in platinum then losing constantly for months (as i read on reddit). Basically my macro is decent but i have no map knowledge, map tactics, or much experience scouting and countering all the tactics. Basically it seems i often lose to cheeses. 4gate rush, baneling drops, tower rush into DT rush. Although im getting better at defending those i just need more practice in general.

I guess i would be looking for friendly silver / gold players. Maybe a helpful plat if he's bored ^_^. (i play T)

Thx :)
 
Noto said:
any guys want to play some 1v1 to practice say around 8pm maybe 2/3 games most nights.

i won my first placement and winning the 2nd easily but I threw them as i didnt wanna end up in platinum then losing constantly for months (as i read on reddit). Basically my macro is decent but i have no map knowledge, map tactics, or much experience scouting and countering all the tactics. Basically it seems i often lose to cheeses. 4gate rush, baneling drops, tower rush into DT rush. Although im getting better at defending those i just need more practice in general.

I guess i would be looking for friendly silver / gold players. Maybe a helpful plat if he's bored ^_^. (i play T)

Thx :)
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I wouldnt mind a few games, gotta get back into this game! Can practice taking on some cheese if you want, or just do straight macro practice.

VoidPtr.167 or i'll be in OcUK chat tonight.
 
I need to practice my hotkey's, i am using Grid as T and when i am under pressure my hands go full retard on my keyboard :(. I guess its because i am learning again, i do feel that i am improving though.
 
I am Wysiwyg.171

Just figured out what your numbers were lol. I've had SC2 since release but didnt play it until the recent MLG when it just made me so hype... i always thought it would be too hard to pick up from scratch but its totally not.

Cant wait to see you guys on :)
 
NinetyOne said:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16978

Feedback please? :P Anything I could have done better etc?
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You knew you had exapnsion over him and he failed to put any pressure on you at all the entire game. You had 6000 minerals and 3000 gas spare at one point. you could have ended the game after 15 minutes. The best thing about zerg is how fast they can pump out units :)
 
NinetyOne said:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16978

Feedback please? :P Anything I could have done better etc?
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Right, I'll try to keep this one reasonably short and concise.

Build Order

So you're opting for a gas pool opening, leading to a very secure natural expansion. Not only a common opening, but a very strong one as well. However, your execution could be a lot better.

We start with a gas on 14. The timing of this is very particular, in that we can also start a spawning pool on our next 14 supply point. If I put my drones on gas immediately when the extractor finishes, I should have 100 gas for speed and 250 minerals for ling speed and a queen right when the pool finishes. It's a very sweet timing.

If i'm constantly building drones, I should then be able to afford my hatchery around 21 supply. Yours was around 18 supply, which is more common for a 15 pool straight into hatchery opening. This demonstrates a significant number of 'bumps' in your initial build order. After that, you seemed to have a decent idea of where you were going, but your lair and subsequent spire -> muta tech could have been way earlier.


Units vs Drones

Yes, by all means have units on the map. As you climb the ladder you're going to start getting drops from terrans cropping up all over the map, and you'll need units to react to large attacks. However, what this game should have taught you is that attacking a well turtled terran with tanks on the high ground and bunkers with almost pure lings is a waste.

Furthermore, the cost of that initial attack wasnt just the lings that died, but also the opportunity cost of building drones, which is extremely significant, especially going into the midgame when you want to be expanding your economy quickly. Because you made so many zerglings, you struggled to saturate your main and natural for a long time, and only once your third was up did you have any real saturation going.

So here's my suggestion. Have some zerglings on the map. Do increase the number of units you have out over the course of the game. Start with 4-6. Keep at least 2 lings near your opponent's base to scout for attacks and look for unit composition. The rest of your zerglings can be scouting around the map alongside overlords to check for hidden expansions/drops. This means if they decide to move out, you have the time between them leaving their base and reaching yours (a fairly long time in general, especially on larger maps) to suppliment with more units, morph banelings etc. In general only morph banelings when you know you'll need them. Otherwise the gas will almost always be more useful somewhere else at the time.

Applying these thought processes your games will give you more drones, faster tech, and (perhaps counterintuitively) more units over time.



Final thought: Interesting hotkey setup. I'll have to try that one. I've just been using a hotkey for queens and a hotkey for hatcheries.


Success! A short strategy post :D


EDIT: In general be careful about attacking players in their natural unless you know you'll do damage. It'll be the point at which they're generally best defended. It's ok to sit back and stop them from taking expansions while you prepare your ultimate deatharmy of doom and destruction.

Oh and more upgrades!!!!!
 
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DampCat said:
You knew you had exapnsion over him and he failed to put any pressure on you at all the entire game. You had 6000 minerals and 3000 gas spare at one point. you could have ended the game after 15 minutes. The best thing about zerg is how fast they can pump out units :)
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Or as LAG TV would say, you had Facebook Money going on Oprah Money at one stage!

You could have rolled the T at any point from about 9.30 mins onwards. A couple of banelings would have got you past the wall and siege tank he had in production.

You seem to suffer from the same issue I am trying to sort, spending minerals. Try making units, even if you're not going to use them for anything meaningful. Good habit to get into IMO.

Your macro looked OK (save unit production) although the T did let you have a pretty easy life and his tank micro wasn't that good.

EDIT: I don't play Zerg so can't comment on Zerg mechanics.
 
Alex74 said:
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Final thought: Interesting hotkey setup. I'll have to try that one. I've just been using a hotkey for queens and a hotkey for hatcheries.


Success! A short strategy post :D
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Thanks for the reply! The thing with upgrades.. I either get them super super fast or just forget about them altogether. :D

Oh and about the hotkeys. I have all my hatches bound to E (weird I know) but I like it. Then I have each hatch/queen bound together on my mouse buttons so I can just double tap each key and jump and inject to each base. I never liked the backspace method. Queens sometimes would run all over the place etc. This also leaves me with tons of space for units in comfortable positions for my hands. (small hands ftl)
 
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HummuH1 said:
You could have rolled the T at any point from about 9.30 mins onwards. A couple of banelings would have got you past the wall and siege tank he had in production.
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Yeah I just watched the replay again and there was a point where i was sitting at his natural with about 20+ lings and a bunch of gas where I could have easily morphed a bunch of banelings and busted him. :o
 
NinetyOne said:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/16978

Feedback please? :P Anything I could have done better etc?
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I had a quick look.

Early game. You got a gas and then didn't put drones in for a good while, meaning you had a massive gas build up and late ling speed. He didn't even attack, if you only make 1/4 of them lings you made you would have been at around 40/50drones by then.

By the 10minute mark you had 26 drones, you need to drone hard, sac a OL in his main about 7minutes to see what he is up to. You just made blind ling's with no scouting information at all.

Because you got a late gas, and you kept guys on gas without spending any you had a build up of gas, then you went 3 base lair into muta on 1 gas. As soon as you made 5mutas you were at 0 gas and could only make lings or drones because you got your other gas geysers wayyy to late. You want, by the time your putting your spire down to have at least 3 gases going with another 1 on the way.

When you got mutas don't just waste them they cost a lot of money, and in close games are extremely valuable. Also if you are going heavy ling/bling and muta. You will need upgrades, if you get melee and armour upgrades not only do your lings and blings do more damage, but your broodlords do too!

When playing a Terran never a- move into a siege wall, you lost a whole army to a army 1/4 your size, you just won easily because you were generally a much better player than him.

The main thing you should work on is to try your hardest to drone harder and scout more (sac a OL into his base, run a ling up his ramp and just leave a ling near his base so you can see a army coming). Practice practice practice hitting every inject timing and make sure you spend all the larvae at your base as quick as you can. The more larvae you spend the quicker it comes back. Also if you get to many larvae at your hatchery no more will appear after a while.

You OL spread was good, especially spitting creep onto his expansions :). Also take the gold furthest away from his base, if he had a 200/200 army death push, your gold would be the first to fall! I didn't notice a lot of supply blocks when I was watching so well done on that !

Hope this was useful. Remember concentrate most on injects and spending your larvae, if you get these down everything will fit into place gradually. You will find your army is double the size of what you normally have.

Hope this helped ^^ :)
 
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nex20 said:
By the 10minute mark you had 26 drones, you need to drone hard, sac a OL in his main about 7minutes to see what he is up to. You just made blind ling's with no scouting information at all.
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Actually I did sac an ovi at about the 6minute mark and saw exactly what he was doing. Other than that everything else you said sounds about right. :D
 
This is what i like to do after i rage at starcraft. :D

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kZohy.jpg

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