Men...

[elmarko]

Watch "The Male Disease" by George Carlin.

It makes a few good points how men have historically & are currently taught not to show empathy, ways to express emotions & to compete excessively.

One side effect of this is the undesirable traits you mentioned in the OP - obviously some women are just as capable as men - but we can't ignore the statistics, 95% of the prison population are male.

The sad thing is that at an early age men learn that women also tend to find sensitive/caring men unappealing - as one of our strongest desires is to reproduce it should be expect to influence development.

Overall it's a mix of different aspects, firstly the expectations of the men, the choices of young women for partners, the role models at the age of development, parental attitudes towards traditional gender roles/behaviour.

 

[grimm]

Reminds me of the "fightin round the world" episode of South Park with Russell Crowe lol.

 

[Participant]

You're going right to the heart of human evolution there though. Our ancestors lived in a very harsh world, where they had to fight to survive. If they didn't then we probably would have died out a long time ago. Unfortunately it's not easy for us to overcome those traits.

Obviously my comments are assuming that humankind would not have been made extinct by its passive nature.

Assuming the lack of aggression would not have killed us off because we were all eaten by predators etc., then I believe that we'd have more technology.

PardonTheWait states that 'without the war creating the need the money would go elsewhere' - fine, but where? I suggest that it would be diverted in a good part into science and technology. And don't forget that a large proportion of the cost of war comes from food, raw materials, salaries, etc. so you don't even have to match total spend on war to match the equivalent level of R&D expenditure.

 

[elmarko]

You're going right to the heart of human evolution there though. Our ancestors lived in a very harsh world, where they had to fight to survive. If they didn't then we probably would have died out a long time ago. Unfortunately it's not easy for us to overcome those traits.

Humanity's success was pretty much based off our ability to co-operate, not kill each other.

Our large community's we developed compared to our ancestors/genetic cousins is considered to be one of the main factors that allowed us to beat our rivals (who were more numerous in number & physically stronger).

We banded together in larger communities, while they fought & killed each other in small groups.

Competitiveness can come in many different forms & evolution is about adaptability - if species A could achieve more by working together they do.

Survival of the fittest (which people tend to mis-quote) isn't really anything to do with evolution - it ignores the prospects of co-operation (which in evolutionary terms is a fantastic trait).

I do agree we have many traits which date back to evolutionary times (hate to use that term, it's not like evolution suddenly stops) - but not all of them are negative.

 

[The Dread Pirate]

because we're all secretly pirates at heart!

 

[territt]

but we can't ignore the statistics, 95% of the prison population are male.

Yeah but as a man your more likely to be sent to prison then a female for the same crime.

 

[Alphane]

Totally diffrent hardware, we don't even run the same operating system how can you even try and compare the two, kinda like benchmarking a gaming rig against a server

 

[Participant]

Yeah but as a man your more likely to be sent to prison then a female for the same crime.

Link? If true, is that not just because a male crime is more like to be aggravated by something else and less likely to have mitigating circumstances? Assuming by 'same crime', you mean same label rather than very similar circumstances.

 

[twozeronine]

Humanity's success was pretty much based off our ability to co-operate, not kill each other.

Our large community's we developed compared to our ancestors/genetic cousins is considered to be one of the main factors that allowed us to beat our rivals (who were more numerous in number & physically stronger).

We banded together in larger communities, while they fought & killed each other in small groups.

Competitiveness can come in many different forms & evolution is about adaptability - if species A could achieve more by working together they do.

Survival of the fittest (which people tend to mis-quote) isn't really anything to do with evolution - it ignores the prospects of co-operation (which in evolutionary terms is a fantastic trait).

I do agree we have many traits which date back to evolutionary times (hate to use that term, it's not like evolution suddenly stops) - but not all of them are negative.

Good point. I was, like you mentioned, not speaking specifically about the evolution of humans, but our entire evolutionary history.

 

[Things change I've changed]

Maybe instead of prison repeat offenders with aggressive tendencies need to instead be forced to have some kind of medication that rebalance their testosterone levels or something, maybe in the future some kind of wonder drug could be developed to do this safely without any adverse negative effects, prison alone doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.


What do people think about drugs to address the issue?, I guess going down this road your getting into eugenics though which is dodgy territory.

Watch "The Male Disease" by George Carlin.

.

Will do cheers.

EDIT - ha ha fantastic.

 

[arc@css]

Fight, flight or free.

 

[elmarko]

Yeah but as a man your more likely to be sent to prison then a female for the same crime.

True, but do you really think that would account for that kind of difference?

If it was 10% or 20% perhaps, but there are apr 17 times more men in prison than women.

 

[gillywibble]

Interesting thread.

If humans had evolved like many animals, then the desire to procreate would only occur once a year, meaning it would be carnage at Easter.

 

[elmarko]

Maybe instead of prison repeat offenders with aggressive tendencies need to instead be forced to have some kind of medication that rebalance their testosterone levels or something, maybe in the future some kind of wonder drug could be developed to do this safely without any adverse negative effects, prison alone doesn't seem to much of a deterrent.

Well, anger alone isn't specifically a bad trait - it depends on how it's applied.

Somebody fervently fighting for the rights of the oppressed, to save innocent lives or to protect the vulnerable would be a good example of anger used in a positive way.

It's the same as caring is not always a good thing, by nurturing negative trait's it's easily possible to hinder a persons development.

Will do cheers.

As with all Carlin's material - it's not to be taken too seriously - but it does highlight certain social/male trends which a majority do tend to conform too - it also provides a reasonable theory as to the cause.

I feel I've got quite an advanced level of empathy compared to most people I know, but even still - emotionally I'm as blunted as the next average male due to my upbringing.

When presented with somebody who is suffering I can offer little to console them, only pragmatic advice to resolve the situation (which is not always what's required, or takes into account the state of mind of the individual in question).

 

[colzboppo]

Think of it this way - if men in general behave this way down to sexual selection ie. the kind of men women like as mates and choose to procreate with...

So in fact it's actually really womens fault, we are the ying to their yang, then again i've met some rough birds too...

 

[elmarko]

Think of it this way - if men in general behave this way down to sexual selection ie. the kind of men women like as mates and choose to procreate with...

So in fact it's actually really womens fault, we are the ying to their yang, then again i've met some rough birds too...

I'm pretty certain there is some truth in this.

Women do have allot of power in determining which traits are passed on, if suddenly all women found "really nice men" incredibly attractive & utterly refused to sleep with jerks - I bet crime rates would drop over a few generations.

It's also part of our current capitalist system, empathy & ethics play no part in modern businesses - as the main motivator is profit.

As wealth is considered to be one of the main traits which seems to aid men in there ability to procreate, doubling up that it's quite easy to make money if you have no morals/empathy - you have a sitation in which negative traits are exaggerated.

It's also worth noting that this could also make men funnier over time, as funny men overall get more women - the ability to make women laugh is being passed down each generation.

I for one will welcome our intergalactic-standup comedic overlords of the future.

 

[arknor]

the women are to busy talking about it as usual

 

[Wolfe777]

Works both ways.

Men cause most of the World's problems, true.

But we also solve most of the World's problems too.


.

 

[ShortWarning]

When ever my friend does something stupid he proclaims "but I'm a lad", that seems to get him out of trouble a lot.

 

[4T5]

A Woman I know got Battered by Three 16 year old Girls tuther night. No Men where involved in this act.