Could you give up your democracy for a lifetime of luxuries

What is democracy? Does my vote really count? Do I have a realistic chance to be a ruler or am I destined to be "ruled"?
Or are we talking obout giving up freedoms (like internet freedom of speech)? No, I would not give up freedoms in exchange for a gold Veyron:)
 
this whole thread has made me think of this: :p

As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly ninety-nine percent of the test subjects accepted the program provided they were given a choice - even if they were only aware of it at a near-unconscious level. While this solution worked, it was fundamentally flawed, creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that, if left unchecked, might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those who refused the program, while a minority, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
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PermaBanned said:
Could i give up this democracy? Yes. Would i give up a real democracy? Probably not.
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and what is a "real democracy"?
Because I have the sneaking suspicion that your idea of "real democracy" is "what I want".

What if when given real democracy the people don't vote for your socialist ideals and instead choose a capitalist system?
 
Tefal said:
and what is a "real democracy"?
Because I have the sneaking suspicion that your idea of "real democracy" is "what I want".

What if when given real democracy the people don't vote for your socialist ideals and instead choose a capitalist system?
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I don't think this is at all what i was getting at but whatever.

Never heard the term 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie'? Even an (impossible) theoretical capitalist model where everyone has the same material value is a dictatorship of need.
 
PermaBanned said:
Never heard the term 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie'? Even an (impossible) theoretical capitalist model where everyone has the same material value is a dictatorship of need.
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Yes I have, my GF is essentially the female version of you when it comes to politics.


And I still stand by; you can't have true freedom without financial freedom.

A man must have the choice of where he spends the returns of his work, not told.


I don't think this is at all what i was getting at but whatever.
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Yet you claim the right to change the elected government by force with support of only a small minority, and without asking the majority...


But as an aside how many of your political beliefs have you discovered or created on your own and how many have you simply copied from your father?
 
PermaBanned said:
I got that from the short lived part. The rest? :confused:

Regardless, i was referring to it being one of the prime candidates for the best example of a 'true democracy'. Whatever one of those is ;)
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Which only illustrates how little you understand the example of "democracy" you advanced. The 'leaders' of the ill fated communards were in many ways no better than those they opposed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Théophile_Ferré

I assume you are familiar with the Communes version of the "The Law of Suspects".....

... that the government of Versailles tramples under foot the rights of humanity as those of war; that it is guilty of horrors that have not even sullied the invaders of French territory... All persons accused of complicity with the government of Versailles shall be decreed accused and imprisoned; a large of accusation shall be instituted... the jury will pronounce judgment within twenty-four hours; all the accused detained by the verdict of the jury shall be the hostages of the people of Paris; for every execution of a prisoner of war or of a partisan of the legal government of the Commune will be immediately followed by the execution of three times the number of hostages...
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http://www.historytoday.com/gregor-dallas/exercise-terror-paris-commune-1871
 
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Tefal said:
Yes I have, my GF is essentially the female version of you when it comes to politics.
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Does she have a sister? ;)

Castiel said:
Which only illustrates how little you understand the example of "democracy" you advanced. The 'leaders' of the ill fated communards were in many ways no better than those they opposed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Théophile_Ferré
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What, killing a few hostages in a last ditch (if futile) attempt to save the Commune from an invading army makes him no better than the people who had absolutely no intention of negotiating at any point and consequently murdered tens of thousands of people? Interesting logic...
 
Tefal said:
Yet you claim the right to change the elected government by force with support of only a small minority, and without asking the majority...
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I don't believe i have, however we could debate for hours about what exactly constitutes an 'elected government'.

Tefal said:
But as an aside how many of your political beliefs have you discovered or created on your own and how many have you simply copied from your father?
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I disagree with a lot of my father's beliefs (i have to, i'm a teenager ;)). It's been useful having someone willing to talk about such things but some of them seem almost hypocritical at times, he takes some things needlessly seriously and is clouded by emotion because of it. But i digress, this isn't 'find flaws with your family' hour :p
 
PermaBanned said:
What, killing a few hostages in a last ditch (if futile) attempt to save the Commune from an invading army makes him no better than the people who had absolutely no intention of negotiating at any point and consequently murdered tens of thousands of people? Interesting logic...
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I think you need to read from a less biased set of sources......it isn't about the scale of an attrocity, it is about the intent and relative ability, and the Communards actually passed a law that allowed them to seize anyone they said was a supporter of the Versailiies and find them guilty with little or no actual defined evidence and then use them as tools in some ever escalating act of revenge, it was not long after the election of the Council that it started to become isolated from those that elected it and became increasingly authoritarian....They created the Committee of Public Safety to "defend (by terror)"the "revolution". That they chose largely clergy and those who the people who frequented the clubs in Paris and those the Council didn't like, including Anarchist supporters who now saw the road the Commune was going down, it was effectively a crusade against the innocent. We see later in subsequent larger communist societies just how far such tactics can go with enough time, manpower and organisation.

No-one is defending the actions of the Versailles, quite the opossite in fact, however putting forward the Communards as some kind of "acceptable" form of democracy is foolhardy at best.
 
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Oh God. A discussion about what defines an elected government, and the purpose of government, is going to be wonderful! And, that's coming from someone who's studied this sort of thing...
 
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