Is my PhD supervisor taking the ****?

King4aDay · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:07

D.P., just because you landed a crap deal doesn't mean everyone else needs to suffer as well

Also, I don't know what field you were in but in my area funding is secured by the entire department and then given to the best candidates, not assigned to a particular project.

OpenToSuggestions · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:08

D.P. said:
35-40 hours a week into the thesis, 35-40 hours of other work, over 4.5 years that is still a lot of research time.

If you did 35-40 hours a week for free then if I ever start up a company I want you working for me as you do 2 jobs for the pay of 1.

Seriously you sound like you did a PhD with an ex-SAS supervisor

.

D.P. · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:09

Art said:
Out of curiosity D.P., did you do your PhD in the USA? I've heard one or two people say vaguely similar things about postgrad study there.

Switzerland, and i know for a fact form an extensive network of collegues in academia doing PhDs and postdocs in the US, canada, france, germany, holland, sweden, belgium, poland, russia, spain, norway, danemark, australia that do the same hours, the same additional work.

D.P. · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:10

OpenToSuggestions said:
If you did 35-40 hours a week for free then if I ever start up a company I want you working for me as you do 2 jobs for the pay of 1.

Seriously you sound like you did a PhD with an ex-SAS supervisor .

I didn't do it for free, I had a stipend. I did work 6 months for free at the end, in that time I worked 100% on my PhD.

Gman · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:10

how much are you getting paid to do the PHD? also at the end of this all is the PHD going to get you to where you want to be or are you just clinging onto education for all its worth and not wanting a real job?

hola_adios · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:13

So he trusts you doing a good job with that? I do not see the issue here. A PhD is a fantastic opportunity, work hard and make the most of it.

Art · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:13

Gman said:
how much are you getting paid to do the PHD? also at the end of this all is the PHD going to get you to where you want to be or are you just clinging onto education for all its worth and not wanting a real job?

Was that directed at anyone in particular?

If not, at the department I'm in PhDs generally get ~£13,500 a year, and for me, research is what I'm looking to stay in so it's not just clinging on.

Disco Boy · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:22

OpenToSuggestions said:
The teaching would have been paid for the one he refused to let me do. The one for him would be unpaid.
The purchasing takes more time and is not paid.

He expects me in the office 9-5 but it is full of distractions as it is mainly post-doc researchers in there. I will work evenings once or twice a week, plus I am a first year PhD and I realise the workload increases massively very soon. People who are further than me into a PhD (some have recently finished) tell me that the first year can be kept mostly 9-5 hours.

Thanks for the replies so far guys . It would be interesting to know what each of you do for a living as I am getting plenty of different opinions.

So you are worried about not getting it done in the time allowed, but you can spare some time for teaching because you get paid for that?

You are worried about not finishing in time already, to the point where one afternoon a week will be make or break, but you only do 9-5.

You think that the workload is going to increase massively, yet you aren't working very hard now to lessen it? And you already seem to have a problem with doing a 9-5?

Do you realise that if you did 9-6 (which as you have gathered from this thread, isn't a lot by PhD standards) then that would make up for the one afternoon a week?

How is an office full of distractions when you're looking at your monitor and have headphones on? Are post docs talking to you to distract you from work? They're like no post docs I have ever met if they are.

People tell you that a first year can get away with 9-5, so what? Do you think that your PhD is just a continuation of your undergrad and it's a party? You might be a first year graduate but you certainly aren't a "fresher" this isn't party time. If you don't need to work very hard this year, aren't you the perfect candidate to be the "supplies bitch"?

If you object to doing the purchasing so much, have you actually raised this with your supervisor?

What is your PhD on anyway? And you're at Keele I take it?

Gman · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:25

Art said:
Was that directed at anyone in particular?

If not, at the department I'm in PhDs generally get ~£13,500 a year, and for me, research is what I'm looking to stay in so it's not just clinging on.

mainly at the OP, but at least your justifying it. But still £13,500 a year for near 70hr weeks :eek:

Jack Bauer · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:25

sbi5ar said:
I still stand by my statement. You do as your supervisor tells you HOWEVER, a supervisor should never jeopardise the PhD by asking too much of the PhD student, HOWEVER (again) as stated by another member... you will have to do lots of other stuff whilst studying for your PhD!

This..it takes more that sitting in your own corner doing your own work to get a PhD. I admit ordering stuff inst fun, but its part of having a research group.

and as above 9-5??? really...

Disco Boy · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:26

Gman said:
mainly at the OP, but at least your justifying it. But still £13,500 a year for near 70hr weeks

Nobody does a doctorate for the pay.

...even the ones on 18k tax free

rgzcampbell · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:27

For my PhD I worked 8.30 to 5.30 Monday to Friday and a couple of hours on the Saturday. The vast majority of this time was spent in the lab as at the end of the day it's your research work that makes or breaks your Doctorate. The last six months of the PhD I was working 8am till 10pm.

For all the students working 70 hour weeks - what is the point? You don't get any thanks for killing yourself and your boss will just expect more. You work to live not live to work even if you do enjoy your job.

Art · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:27

Gman said:
mainly at the OP, but at least your justifying it. But still £13,500 a year for near 70hr weeks

It's tax exempt, which helps. Far as I remember the stipend is calculated to be more or less bang on equivalent to minimum wage if you work 9-5,take weekends off, and take all your entitled holiday time.

Needless to say, that's crazy talk.

OpenToSuggestions · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:29

Disco Boy said:
So you are worried about not getting it done in the time allowed, but you can spare some time for teaching because you get paid for that?
It is the point that if I choose to work extra that is my choice, not to be a free admin bitch.

You are worried about not finishing in time already, to the point where one afternoon a week will be make or break, but you only do 9-5.
Half a day is 10% of my time. Quite a lot really.

You think that the workload is going to increase massively, yet you aren't working very hard now to lessen it? And you already seem to have a problem with doing a 9-5?
My problem is not with the 9-5.

Do you realise that if you did 9-6 (which as you have gathered from this thread, isn't a lot by PhD standards) then that would make up for the one afternoon a week?
If I stay later for my work then fine. Not for free to buy a coffee machine.

How is an office full of distractions when you're looking at your monitor and have headphones on? Are post docs talking to you to distract you from work? They're like no post docs I have ever met if they are.
I find music a distraction. When working I want to work in a quiet environment as I am reading papers most of the day.

People tell you that a first year can get away with 9-5, so what? Do you think that your PhD is just a continuation of your undergrad and it's a party? You might be a first year graduate but you certainly aren't a "fresher" this isn't party time.
I never go out partying.

If you object to doing the purchasing so much, have you actually raised this with your supervisor?
I will do. I just wanted to see if what I was thinking was OK first.

What is your PhD on anyway? And you're at Keele I take it?
Loughborough (Stoke way is home). It is on factory design.

memyselfandi · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:31

w11tho said:
As has been suggested, how much work you have to do for your PhD depends very much on what you're doing, where you are and how much talent you have.

Of all the PhD students I was friendly with, I'm struggling to think of a single one who needed to do more than 9-5 (or more realistically 10-4) until they started writing up. And even then, a lot of the work was done in a very laid back fashion!

Same for the friends of mine who did PHDs ... In fact one of them barely stretched to 11-3 for long periods (although comments were made on that eventually)

Most of them kept normal office hours and spent at least 90% of that time on their research rather than doing random things for their supervisor.

D.P. · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:43

rgzcampbell said:
For my PhD I worked 8.30 to 5.30 Monday to Friday and a couple of hours on the Saturday. The vast majority of this time was spent in the lab as at the end of the day it's your research work that makes or breaks your Doctorate. The last six months of the PhD I was working 8am till 10pm.

For all the students working 70 hour weeks - what is the point? You don't get any thanks for killing yourself and your boss will just expect more. You work to live not live to work even if you do enjoy your job.

If I never worked 70 hours a week I wouldn't have got the PhD, and if I am going to work 40-50 hours a week to get a rejection after 5 years then what was the point?

D.P. · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:44

Disco Boy said:
So you are worried about not getting it done in the time allowed, but you can spare some time for teaching because you get paid for that?

You are worried about not finishing in time already, to the point where one afternoon a week will be make or break, but you only do 9-5.

You think that the workload is going to increase massively, yet you aren't working very hard now to lessen it? And you already seem to have a problem with doing a 9-5?

Do you realise that if you did 9-6 (which as you have gathered from this thread, isn't a lot by PhD standards) then that would make up for the one afternoon a week?

How is an office full of distractions when you're looking at your monitor and have headphones on? Are post docs talking to you to distract you from work? They're like no post docs I have ever met if they are.

People tell you that a first year can get away with 9-5, so what? Do you think that your PhD is just a continuation of your undergrad and it's a party? You might be a first year graduate but you certainly aren't a "fresher" this isn't party time. If you don't need to work very hard this year, aren't you the perfect candidate to be the "supplies bitch"?

If you object to doing the purchasing so much, have you actually raised this with your supervisor?

What is your PhD on anyway? And you're at Keele I take it?

very well said!

Jack Bauer · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:48

tbh to many of the replies indicate that the point of a PhD is to do a thesis and pass. This isn't really the case and you will end up with a poor PhD if you just work 9-5 on your thesis and don't develop in other ways. You might as well have stuck with your undergrad degree.

D.P. · 27 Feb 2012 at 20:57

Jack Bauer said:
tbh to many of the replies indicate that the point of a PhD is to do a thesis and pass. This isn't really the case and you will end up with a poor PhD if you just work 9-5 on your thesis and don't develop in other ways. You might as well have stuck with your undergrad degree.

Agreed 100%. In many universities in many countries no one cares at all about the final thesis. I have known plenty of people that printed off their papers from the journal website, put a short introductory chapter on the front and literally stapled the lot together. (I didn't do this BTW).

The research and documentation is really a small part of the PhD. Really, a PhD is to put you on the path to being a Professor.

All of the useful things I have learned were completely outside the realm of my PhD. Doing scientific research is relatively easy, you learn that at a under undergrad project. Tasks like project organization, time management, rapidly learning new skills/programing languages, teaching, assisting students, writing funding proposals, writing patents, selling your project to venture capitalists or the head of an EU funding body, reviewing articles, managing project funds, general people skills, etc, etc.

Jack Bauer · 27 Feb 2012 at 21:09

OpenToSuggestions said:
Hey all.
Firstly, I do a PhD. I am around 6 months into it.

A few months ago I was asked if I want do some paid work (2 hours per week for a semester) with assisting with labs for first year undergraduates. PhD students are permitted in their contracts to work up to 6 hours per week. No issues here.

My supervisor told me no. He then tells me this is because I need to make the most of my time and not spend it on things that are not useful to my PhD.

Saying that, he shouldn't have done this. I guess you will have more time for teaching now rather than later. Either way, you should put your foot down at some point and say you are doing it for at least a year. If not make him give you a project student (4th year masters maybe if you have them).