What is a hot hatch....

Hades · 4 Mar 2012 at 01:04

mjt said:
Anything that is reasonably quick (say ~7s 0-60?)has 3/5 doors and is a hoot to drive.

Warm and lukewarm and all this nonsense is just that. Nonsense.

MCS is a hot hatch. RenaultSports are hot hatches, Focus ST, Golf GTI/R etc are all hot hatches.

Not sure about the Polo GTI and Twingo 133 though. Perhaps the Twingo as it's more 'raw' as opposed to a Polo.

Isn't there a Polo GTI with something like 170 or 180bhp though? Surely that must be a hot hatch?

Begbie · 4 Mar 2012 at 05:25

Conanius said:
I knew this would pick up as a point of annoyance with some posters.

I can't place what it was. It was clearly a great car, I just didn't enjoy driving it. It was effortless to go fast. I'd imagine If it had a bit more soulful engine note I might have enjoyed it more, who knows.

That aside, I'd be a bloody idiot to claim it isn't close to the benchmark hot hatch.

What other cars have you driven?

Effortless to go fast? You need the wring the crap out of it to get it going.

Howard · 4 Mar 2012 at 08:44

What's my Mondeo?

It's a hatchback, but it's twice the size of most hot hatches. I guess 'performance saloon' would be closer to the truth, but it's a hatchback..!

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 08:58

Hot Hatch

Clio 172/182
Peugeot 205GTi or 206 GTi180
Golf GTi
Saxo VTR/VTS (Urgh, I can't believe I have to include it)
Seat Cupra R
Fiesta ST/Zetec S
I suppose you could include the original Mini Cooper too

I wouldn't really consider anything like a Focus ST a hot hatch, as the Fiesta is smaller, but obviously thats up for debate

Pretty much any small 2 door car thats fairly fast, but the Golf GTi is the king, well the MK I and II, the new ones are way to big

Skeeter said:
Anyone else think that the Fiesta ST is a completely missed trick by Ford?

I would tend to agree with you, my other half has a Fiesta ST, and although its only 150BHP (not really comparable to the 172/182 of the Clio Sport) she says it attracts unwanted attention from everybody, not just chavs, but it's like people see the ST badge and think "She wants to race" she gets all sorts of idiots trying it on with her, and yeah a lot of them lose because they have old BMW's or Mondeos but she even gets Jags and Mercs racing her (not that theres any point)

Just seems a bit weird that the ST gets this kind of attention when it's hardly a stand out car, maybe if it had closer to 200bhp it might warrant the attention

rjk · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:35

I think this imaginary benchmark of 200bhp is getting in the way a little too often and clouding peoples judgement.

Fr0dders · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:44

I'd say the fiesta ST with only 150bhp is more of a warm hatch than a hot hatch.

[TW]Fox · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:49

I think the term 'warm hatch' is really irritating.

Lopéz · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:51

rjkoneill said:
I think this imaginary benchmark of 200bhp is getting in the way a little too often and clouding peoples judgement.

Me too, who thought that one up?

[TW]Fox;21396343 said:
I think the term 'warm hatch' is really irritating.

Agreed!

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:52

Oh I forgot Honda CRX too

[TW]Fox · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:53

Jay794 said:
Oh I forgot Honda CRX too

I don't think it matters, as your post made little sense anyway. I mean.. Golf GTI a hot hatch but Focus ST 'too big'? The Focus ST is hardly huge!

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:55

[TW]Fox;21396363 said:
I don't think it matters, as your post made little sense anyway. I mean.. Golf GTI a hot hatch but Focus ST 'too big'? The Focus ST is hardly huge!

Didn't make sense? How so?

The Fiesta ST is smaller, so why include the Focus aswell? it may be a hatch, but the Vauxhall Cavalier was a hatch back too, with 200bhp, you wouldn't consider that a hot hatch would you? :rolleyes:

Park the Mk I Golf GTi next to the Focus ST and tell me its not huge lol

The whole thing is complete opinion anyway, there is now official guidelines that warrant what is or isn't a hot hatch, Some people wouldn't consider the 206 GTi180 a hot hatch, others would

BD10NNF · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:55

Jay794 said:
Hot Hatch

I would tend to agree with you, my other half has a Fiesta ST, and although its only 150BHP (not really comparable to the 172/182 of the Clio Sport) she says it attracts unwanted attention from everybody, not just chavs, but it's like people see the ST badge and think "She wants to race" she gets all sorts of idiots trying it on with her, and yeah a lot of them lose because they have old BMW's or Mondeos but she even gets Jags and Mercs racing her (not that theres any point)

Just seems a bit weird that the ST gets this kind of attention when it's hardly a stand out car, maybe if it had closer to 200bhp it might warrant the attention

I know what thats like. Had loads of people wanting to race and becoming very stupid wanting to race me in my ST in their BMW or Merc or pretty much anything, just to try and prove a point against me.

The other day an AMG Merc didnt like me over taking him on a dual carriageway (bare in mind he was doing 50mpg and I was only doing 65mph). I overtook him and moved back over. Then for some reason he blasted passed me and then just sat infront of me :confused:

. Dont get me wrong it sounded awesome but still :confused:

[TW]Fox · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:57

Jay794 said:
But the Fiesta ST is smaller, thus there is no need to include the Focus aswell

Ok, well, the Ford Ka is smaller than the Fiesta ST so no need to include that either then.

And lets get rid of the Clio 182 as the Twingo 133 is smaller, so no need to include it.

And strike the Golf GTI off the list, the Lupo is smaller.

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 09:59

[TW]Fox;21396377 said:
Ok, well, the Ford Ka is smaller than the Fiesta ST so no need to include that either then.

And lets get rid of the Clio 182 as the Twingo 133 is smaller, so no need to include it.

And strike the Golf GTI off the list, the Lupo is smaller.

A KA is hardly a hot hatch is it? now you're just being silly

The term "hot hatch" has more than just size defining it. What sort of cult status does the Twingo and Lupo have compared to the 182 and the Golf? :rolleyes:

I hardly think the Focus ST has a big following or cult status, the Fiesta ST has a massive following, it has its own car show (Fiesta in the Park)

[TW]Fox · 4 Mar 2012 at 10:01

Jay794 said:
A KA is hardly a hot hatch is it? now you're just being silly the term hot hatch has more than just size defining it. What sort of cult status does the Twingo and Lupo have compared to the 182 and the Golf?

The Lupo GTI and RenaultSport Twingo 133 are both 'sporting' models, though.

So now you move the goalposts yet again and claim a hot hatch needs 'cult status'? Seriously? So the Clio 182 wasn't a 'hot hatch' when it came out as it didnt have cult status on Day 1. Mind you it isn't a hot hatch anyway according to you, th Twingo exists so no need to include it right?

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 10:03

[TW]Fox;21396383 said:
The Lupo GTI and RenaultSport Twingo 133 are both 'sporting' models, though.

So now you move the goalposts yet again and claim a hot hatch needs 'cult status'? Seriously? So the Clio 182 wasn't a 'hot hatch' when it came out as it didnt have cult status on Day 1. Mind you it isn't a hot hatch anyway according to you, th Twingo exists so no need to include it right?

Stop being stupid and taking me so literal.

Like I said, it's complete opinion anyway.

The 182 is a hot hatch
The Twingo is a crap attempt at a hot hatch
The Lupo GTi is a hot hatch

Sport doesn't mean anything these days, you can buy a 1.2 "sports" model

rjk · 4 Mar 2012 at 10:04

I would have thought a sport ka would qualify for hot hatch status no?

Or is that too rich coming from an ex fiesta ST owner

Will · 4 Mar 2012 at 10:05

Pretty much nobody ever tries to 'race' me in my fiesta ST, modified/chavved up as it is (depending on perspective)... in 2.5 years of ownership I had maybe one person try, a diesel golf with Lexus lights and fake audi wheels no less....do you ST drivers all have the stripes on your car or something? I can imagine getting way more of the wrong kind of attention that way.

[TW]Fox · 4 Mar 2012 at 10:06

Jay794 said:
Stop being stupid and taking me so literal.

Like I said, it's complete opinion anyway.

The 182 is a hot hatch
The Twingo is a crap attempt at a hot hatch

Ok, so now we've moved to..

'A car cannot be a hot hatch if there is a smaller car the manufacturer makes thats also a hot hatch unless that car is a crap attempt at a hot hatch'.

This is such awesome opinion right here :cool:

The Lupo GTi is a hot hatch

Ok, so thats cancelled the Golf GTI out then which is no longer a hot hatch?

Jay794 · 4 Mar 2012 at 10:06

Personally I wouldn't consider the any varient of the KA (Sport KA, etc..) a hot hatch, maybe its just because I think its a girls car

Maybe I should shut up though, I mean, I drive a 206 lol, it's not the CC though lol

Will said:
Pretty much nobody ever tries to 'race' me in my fiesta ST, modified/chavved up as it is (depending on perspective)... in 2.5 years of ownership I had maybe one person try, a diesel golf with Lexus lights and fake audi wheels no less....do you ST drivers all have the stripes on your car or something? I can imagine way more of the wrong attention that way.

My girlfriends doesn't have stripes, its completely standard too

[TW]Fox;21396398 said:
Ok, so now we've moved to..

'A car cannot be a hot hatch if there is a smaller car the manufacturer makes thats also a hot hatch unless that car is a crap attempt at a hot hatch'.

Ok, so thats cancelled the Golf GTI out then which is no longer a hot hatch?

Stop trolling, it's complete opinion as I've said like 3 times already

The Lupo GTi is a hot hatch, but it doesn't have the iconic status that the Golf has, the Golf was the first car to ever be called a hot hatch