Make Bradford British TV Program

Rikki said:
I think the bottom line is too many people jump on things that have no negative connection just for the sensationalism aspect. Ive never felt slighted being referred to as "that Scot" :)
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The term was introduced in the 1960's as a derogratory description...it was never an accepted shortened version of Pakistani, it was only derived from the word....and it was/is a racial slur aimed at any member of the Sub-Continent whether they are Pakistani, Indian or Blangladeshi.

The comparision with the term 'Scot' is wrong insomuch as the term 'Scot' has no inherent racial slur associated with it and is an ancient and accepted term for an individual born in Scotland. The same is not true of the word '****'.

So basically, while it is possible to use the word 'Scot' without any inherent insult ingrained in the term, the same is not true of the word '****' which was and is specifically intended as a racial slur and as such the insult is ingrained in the term regardless of the intent of the user....in fact the very choice of that word in usage would imply some intent of the user.
 
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There's a reason I drive through Stockport and most of Manchester with the windows up and the doors locked
 
Castiel said:
The term was introduced in the 1960's as a derogratory description...it was never an accepted shortened version of Pakistani, it was only derived from the word....and it was/is a racial slur aimed at any member of the Sub-Continent whether they are Pakistani, Indian or Blangladeshi.

The comparision with the term 'Scot' is wrong insomuch as the term 'Scot' has no inherent racial slur associated with it.

So basically, while it is possible to use the word 'Scot' without any inherent insult ingrained in the term, the same is not true of the word '****' which was and is specifically intended as a racial slur and as such the insult is ingrained in the term regardless of the intent of the user....in fact the very choice of that word in usage would imply some intent of the user.
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I've given up trying to reason with him. Clearly where he lives is a representation of the whole country and everyone else is wrong....
 
if the Prince can use the work **** then why can't everyone else?

The problem isn't the word itself it's the tone and usage of the word, normally because its typical usage is something like "<insert swear word> ****'s"
 
Jay794 said:
if the Prince can use the work **** then why can't everyone else?

The problem isn't the word itself it's the tone and usage of the word, normally because its typical usage is something like "<insert swear word> ****'s"
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Only problem with that is the origination of the word itself.....unlike many other words whereby the intent and context when used toward another individual is important when deciding the meaning, the term '****' has no other context with which to justify it's use....it was created as a racial slur and it is unfortunately impossible to separate the use of it from that inherent bias.

With some words, like '****' and others such as 'chink' have an inherent ethnic derogratory bias regardless of the intent of the user. In fact you would have to question the intent of anyone who used such terms in reference to another individual simply by their choice of the word.

Prince Philip using the word, or any other, doesn't imply social acceptance of the use of that word either, probably given Prince Philips history, it is a case for NOT using the word.
 
Castiel said:
Prince Philip using the word, or any other, doesn't imply social acceptance of the use of that word either, probably given Prince Philips history, it is a case for NOT using the word.
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Sorry, I meant Harry (not much better I know) in a video he said "thats our **** friend"

Seems logical to me

Brit - British (not that it's ever used)
Scot - Scotish
Jap - Japanese
Thai - Thailand
Turk - Turkish

Seems only logical to call people from Pakistan ****'s
 
Jay794 said:
Sorry, I meant Harry (not much better I know) in a video he said "thats our **** friend"

Seems logical to me

Brit - British (not that it's ever used)
Scot - Scotish
Jap - Japanese
Thai - Thailand
Turk - Turkish

Seems only logical to call people from Pakistan ****'s
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It's a bit different when people shout **** at any brown person walking down the street.
 
Jay794 said:
Sorry, I meant Harry (not much better I know) in a video he said "thats our **** friend"

Seems logical to me

Brit - British (not that it's ever used)
Scot - Scotish
Jap - Japanese
Thai - Thailand
Turk - Turkish

Seems only logical to call people from Pakistan ****'s
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Which totally ignores the origination of the respective words.

'Jap' for example has become over time a derogratory term (within English use) although its origination wasn't such....this is about the perception of the word rather than the original intent....

Thai is the official term for someone from Thailand, as is Scot, and there is no alternative....Thai is not a shortened version of another word.

Turk has various definitions, but within the context of ethnicity it is a specific ethnic people and peoples, it is not simply a shortening of Turkish as the term predates the formation of Turkey and Turkish derives from Turk not the other way around.

And Brit has no associated slur behind it.

'****' however, was never associated with a simple shortening of Pakistani...it isn't even associated only with Pakistan....it is specifically meant, and created as a ethnic slur aimed specifically at individuals of Asian sub-continent descent.

It is that association, rather than the context, that makes the word unacceptable.


(you will find that in the military many racial terms are accepted between serving soldiers, however if another person used that term to Harry's 'mate' then it would not be acceptable....such is the nature of military life and is not to be confused with a wider acceptance of the word....for example one of my close friends is called Raggie (as in raghead) by some of us..yet if someone, even a friend who had not served with him called him that he would object....strongly)
 
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sigma said:
It's a bit different when people shout **** at any brown person walking down the street.
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LOL is that not the point Ive been saying over the last day.

Lad above makes another good point, I refer to Scoobys Evos Skylines and what not as Jap cars - is this wrong too ?
 
If "Brit" ever becomes a derogatory word then that's how we'll know we've failed as a race. It's not derogatory because we refuse to be an oppressed minority wherever we go in the world, so when people label us as Brits we don't see it as an insult.
 
Castiel said:
The term was introduced in the 1960's as a derogratory description...it was never an accepted shortened version of Pakistani, it was only derived from the word....and it was/is a racial slur aimed at any member of the Sub-Continent whether they are Pakistani, Indian or Blangladeshi.

The comparision with the term 'Scot' is wrong insomuch as the term 'Scot' has no inherent racial slur associated with it and is an ancient and accepted term for an individual born in Scotland. The same is not true of the word '****'.

So basically, while it is possible to use the word 'Scot' without any inherent insult ingrained in the term, the same is not true of the word '****' which was and is specifically intended as a racial slur and as such the insult is ingrained in the term regardless of the intent of the user....in fact the very choice of that word in usage would imply some intent of the user.
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I suppose that depends on your location too though as a term coined in one place with disrespect compared to being used as a contraction somewhere else with absolutely no negative intention.
 
Jay794 said:
Sorry, I meant Harry (not much better I know) in a video he said "thats our **** friend"

Seems logical to me

Brit - British (not that it's ever used)
Scot - Scotish
Jap - Japanese
Thai - Thailand
Turk - Turkish

Seems only logical to call people from Pakistan ****'s
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Spot on.
 
Castiel said:
Cut the massive quote down to save space
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You make sense, as usual Castiel, but its still confusing, my understand of that list I posted is that they are all used and accepted shortened versions of the original word.

scorza said:
If "Brit" ever becomes a derogatory word then that's how we'll know we've failed as a race. It's not derogatory because we refuse to be an oppressed minority wherever we go in the world, so when people label us as Brits we don't see it as an insult.
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Exactly, If someone called me "white trash" I wouldn't be offended, yes I'm white, but I come from a middle class background, thus not a gypsy lol
 
Rikki said:
LOL is that not the point Ive been saying over the last day.

Lad above makes another good point, I refer to Scoobys Evos Skylines and what not as Jap cars - is this wrong too ?
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To point it is, if you used it toward an individual and you were American.....

As with many derogratory terms that derive or have grown from innocent definitions the level of offence is dependent on the location or culture in which it is used.....also just because a word was once acceptable, doesn't mean that it is still as the definitions and associations have changed over time.

Another example of this in relation to the Japanese is the word 'Nip'...which is offensive to a Japanese person, it was created as such, yet was derived from Nippon, the Japanese name for Japan....it has no other accepted context but a derogratory one....'****' is the same...while the word Pakistani from which it is derived is acceptable, the context in it's creation gives it an inherrent derogratory bias that means that regardless of the intent or context of the usage, the bias remains.
 
Jay794 said:
You make sense, as usual Castiel, but its still confusing, my understand of that list I posted is that they are all used and accepted shortened versions of the original word.



Exactly, If someone called me "white trash" I wouldn't be offended, yes I'm white, but I come from a middle class background, thus not a gypsy lol
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Adding the trash part on makes it dodgy, calling you white would be ok though in my own opinion though going by the ethos in this thread by most maybe Caucasian would be the correct terminology :P

Have to agree 100% though, Castiel had provided information and background on things in a balanced manner. Kudos to him.
 
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