Six more dead UK soldiers
- Thread starter gothic_hobbit
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I'm basing my views on what I've read in reports, not on the personal views of someone who has a particular interest.
I am not ungrateful for the work that our soldiers are trying to do, I have the upmost respect for anyone serving in our forces - something I've mentioned in the past. However, I think it is also important to not just let blind patriotism get in the way of fact. Yes, you've done the job as best you can in testing circumstances. However, the ultimate mission of securing the country in order to protect our shores has failed - like Russia did. No one can go into Afghanistan and 'fix' it and change it to such a way that it'll resemble the liberal idealist view of what a country should be. It's not a failed state per se, but the implementation of western values and western democracy will fail.
We need to accept this and move on.
Thanks for the info, no one knew that.
Get a grip mate, it dosnt work like that, you cant just say mission failed.
we wont know if we have succeeded or failed until many years down the line, if in say 5-10 years after we withdraw there is still a "fair" and "elected" government that is able to handle its own security, then our mission there will be a success, as has already been said our mission there at the moment is to develop, train and mentor the ANSF to take control and be able to handle there own security and development.
as someone who has recently returned from there, i can safely say there has been great progress, granted there is still a lot to be done, but the afghans have already started to take control of certain parts with some degree of success from what i seen in my time there, however as i say there is still a lot of work to be done and they are still heavily reliant on ISAF assistance.
but things are definitely going in there right direction.
they may look like a gun wielding rabble to you, however they have come a long way the the last couple of years, they may not be the most professional looking lot however they have there own way of doing things
.Heard about this at lunchtime on the radio, it is indeed a sad day.
me and my mates were all gobsmacked, must have been a pretty hefty charge to take out a warrior, i've seen an IED take the tracks off a warrior but wouldnt have expected it to take out the hull
me and my mates were all gobsmacked, must have been a pretty hefty charge to take out a warrior, i've seen an IED take the tracks off a warrior but wouldnt have expected it to take out the hull
Doesn't mean its ok.
I have 20 drivers out on the road everyday. Is it ok if they die in a crash.
Afterall they know the roads are a dangerous place
RIP to all the extremely brave men that have lost their lives trying to make the world a safer place.
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Still
I certainly don't think that we have managed to impose a "fair" Government on Afghanistan. I suspect that it isn't what we in the UK would describe as "elected" either.
A tragic loss of our brave soldiers.
RIP
A loss, and a waste, because it will all have been for nothing in the end.
Heard about this at lunchtime on the radio, it is indeed a sad day.
me and my mates were all gobsmacked, must have been a pretty hefty charge to take out a warrior, i've seen an IED take the tracks off a warrior but wouldnt have expected it to take out the hull
A double or triple stack of anti tank mines would most likely destroy the hull.
Most modern anti mines use a shaped charge to maximise the explosive effect.
Remember Russian anti mines destroy a M1A1 in Iraq, which rolled over three anti-tank mines, buried in the road, one on top of another.
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RIP.
It's sad to say that many of the deaths were avoidable during this war. The Forces are under funded and inefficient with the money they do have. Simple example: my brother will be going back out for a 3rd time totalling 7 months out of 12, something that isn't meant to be allowed. The reason? Most of his other colleagues have been out there 3 times and are restricted by the 6 out of 12 month limit too.
Being sent out so much, for so long, is really knocking the lads' spirits. Every time my brother comes back he changes slightly for at least a few weeks. He'll be missing his 21st birthday and a holiday he'd organised with friends. One of his friends dropped to the floor the other day when a car back fired (he was in the UK).
Politicians don't have a clue what they're doing, not just to the soliders but also their families. My parents are a nervous wreck when he's out!
It's sad to say that many of the deaths were avoidable during this war. The Forces are under funded and inefficient with the money they do have. Simple example: my brother will be going back out for a 3rd time totalling 7 months out of 12, something that isn't meant to be allowed. The reason? Most of his other colleagues have been out there 3 times and are restricted by the 6 out of 12 month limit too.
Being sent out so much, for so long, is really knocking the lads' spirits. Every time my brother comes back he changes slightly for at least a few weeks. He'll be missing his 21st birthday and a holiday he'd organised with friends. One of his friends dropped to the floor the other day when a car back fired (he was in the UK).
Politicians don't have a clue what they're doing, not just to the soliders but also their families. My parents are a nervous wreck when he's out!
Soldato
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Not really unfortunately. IED's are, as the name suggests, improved. Their effectiveness against armour and such is not usually that high, they are much more often used against foot patrols.
A soviet era anti tank mine is military grade hardware, developed for very specific reasons, such as destroying heavily armoured vehicles.
From the reports now coming out, it does sound like it was a insurgent IED though :\.
RIP Guys.
Indeed.
It's a shame for the people of Afghanistan but we're just letting our men die for almost nothing. It's stupid.
RIP.
they have there own way of doing things
As an observation based on living in the ME many years ago, I can say that this is something that western politicians repeatedly fail to understand. Many good things will be done by overseas forces, some of which will last. Many will not.
In terms of the overall goals, only many years of time will show any real evidence of success.
It is a shame, however, that we have to get men and women killed to prove the point that it has all been worth while. Much of the time - especially when you hear about the reactions of the general populace, in places like Afghanistan, to the recent quran disposal troubles the americans had - much of the time, I wonder why we actually bother to help these backward and medieval people better themselves, because when it suits them they will spit all that help back in our faces. Perhaps that's an opinion partly formed by the lens of western media reporting, but it sure rings true from what I remember of the past. In short, many ordinary people will not thank us for our efforts on their behalf, no matter what some individuals or their leaders will say.
I predict that the actions of some brave and idealistically hopeful Afghans will be brushed aside in due course, by the tribal and political friction that will continue as before as soon as international forces leave them to it.
They have their own way of doing things and we're not going to be able to change that.
