The tolerant Catholic Church

[bhavv]

Those questions on the comres ones are purely terrible and biased in their nature, most people answering them wouldnt even understand what they are looking at! And who were the sample groups that answered them? I surely never got one of them to fill in.

Why not simply ask:

Do you agree that same sex marriage should be legalised?

Yes
No
Maybe
Dont Know.

You would get a far overwhelming support for yes anywhere in England, unless you are only handing the surveys out in churches and mosques.

Also maybe try asking University students only and you would likely see far in excess of 80% support for same sex marriage.

 

[D.P.]

Do you think before posting or is it entirely random ?
Just wondering, because nothing you've said so far has lasted more than a few seconds before being quashed by somebody.

Have another poll:
http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/Coalition_for_Marriage_data_tables_Feb12.pdf

51% that marriage should not be redefined (34% yes, 14% don't know)


The only measure of bias possible in independent research polls is via manipulative wording, which while not perfect IMO isn't particularly biased.

Just by seeing a couple of the sample questions in Castiel's post, any data from that questionnaire would never be allowed to be published in a scientific journal. The questions are terrible. It is just nonsense results.


The survey you posted is atrocious:
"Since gay and lesbian couples already have the same rights as married couples available to them under civil partnership, they should not be allowed to redefine mariage for everyone else"

That is practically criminal. it is disgraceful that ComRes agree to carry out such awfully biased surverys.

 

[Fran]

Besides the dubious nature of the questionnaire, I don't see that it has much pertinence, perhaps merely highlighting the wide spread homophobic beliefs of the populace.

Just because the answers given are not what you wish them to be, doesn't make them homophobic, any more than responses to immigration are racist.
Even if people's response is homophobic, this is still a democracy and this is still what the majority wish for.

Why not simply ask:
Do you agree that same sex marriage should be legalised?

Because that's a leading question perhaps ?

Also maybe try asking University students only and you would likely see far in excess of 80% support for same sex marriage.

Were you not just pointlessly insinuating that their research was biased, and now you suggest only asking a group whose opinion is already known to you ?

Just LOL

 

[bhavv]

The Comres questionnaire wouldnt even pass a university dissertation! Forget about even trying to get it into a journal

Because that's a leading question perhaps ?

I meant to say 'Do you think', not 'do you agree', thanks for pointing that out.

 

[spudbynight]

Besides the dubious nature of the questionnaire, I don't see that it has much pertinence, perhaps merely highlighting the wide spread homophobic beliefs of the populace.

People keep using the word homophobic on this topic.

Not agreeing with homosexual marriage is not homophobic.

 

[Castiel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_Kingdom

To be clear...you are aware that throughout this thread I have and continue to support Gay Marriage.

And one poll doesn't necessarily negate another as each must be considered by various criteria, not least of all the questions asked and the poll size.

For example, in your wiki quote, one of the polls shows 78% in favour of either same sex marriage or civil union...rather than one or the other.....what would be the result if it was one or the other and what was the percentage if the question was split.

Eric Pickles on Newsnight made the very valid point that with regard the State, Gay Marriage is simply an extension of the equality toward it's population in State licenced institutions. In other words, Gay Marriage is a matter of the State's responsibilty toward Equality and fairness in regard the application of State licenced marriage and that it will not affect Temples, Churches or Mosques in their officiation of marriages.

I am not so sure that ultimately it won't impact religious institutions, for example, how long will it take for Gay activists to demand a church wedding under the auspices of equality or discrimination just for the sake of it?

My hope is that state sanctioning of gay marriage will encourage religious institutions, particularly the Anglian Church because of it's status as the established church to reconsider their objections and will allow and encourage a revisiting of long held interpretations and applications of scripture and dogma.

 

[spudbynight]

I am not so sure that ultimately it won't impact religious institutions, for example, how long will it take for Gay activists to demand a church wedding under the auspices of equality or discrimination just for the sake of it?

In total seriousness I would expect someone in the UK to attempt just that inside the first week.

 

[bhavv]

To be clear...you are aware that throughout this thread I have and continue to support Gay Marriage.

Regardless of your personal views, you pick obviously biased questionnaires, one with a Catholic agenda, and another one with nonsensical questions written with a muppet's English skills

And you think I'm embarrassed over pointing that out? Never.

 

[bhavv]

I am not so sure that ultimately it won't impact religious institutions, for example, how long will it take for Gay activists to demand a church wedding under the auspices of equality or discrimination just for the sake of it?

In total seriousness I would expect someone in the UK to attempt just that inside the first week.

And why is that a problem?

The Church of Sweden and the Church of Denmark (in full communion with the Anglican Churches of the British Isles through the Porvoo Communion) perform blessings of same-sex couples.[37] Following the legalization of same-sex marriage in Sweden in May 2009, the Church of Sweden decided in October 2009 to start conducting same-sex weddings in their churches.

People keep using the word homophobic on this topic.

Not agreeing with homosexual marriage is not homophobic.

If youre not homophobic then why do you oppose same sex marriage?

 

[Fran]

I've amended your question to what you intended

Why not simply ask:

Do you think that same sex marriage should be legalised?

Here is another poll where the question asked was pretty similar

Do you support or oppose the Government's proposal to legalise same-sex marriage?

Which I'm sure you will agree is almost exactly what you asked for and so can not possibly have any Catholic bias as you yourself wrote it ?

Agreed ?



http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/Premier_Gay_Marriage_data_tables_Nov11.pdf


Sorry, 83% are opposed to it...





Petard, hoisted

 

[D.P.]

People keep using the word homophobic on this topic.

Not agreeing with homosexual marriage is not homophobic.

I never said it was, but homophobic people are likely to disprove of same sex marriage. Asking a homophobic sample if they agree with same sex marriage does NOT tell you anything about the morality or right or wrongness.

 

[Castiel]

Even if the data gathering was done correctly, I question the validity of the questionnaire.



What does that have to do with same sex marriage or even same-sex parenthood. Completely misleading.


Even this is not a very good question. It is already loaded from the start (continue) and is a triple question (life-long, exclusive commitment, between a man and women.)

Why not simply ask if same-sex civil partnerships that have the same legal implications as marriage should be called marriage?



Besides the dubious nature of the questionnaire, I don't see that it has much pertinence, perhaps merely highlighting the wide spread homophobic beliefs of the populace.

I disagree, I don't find the questions particularly misleading or leading...they are what they are....I am not supporting or opposing the validity of the poll, all polls are notoriously difficult to draw valid conclusions from and this is true of those polls that support or oppose gay marriage.

I think the debate is better served with a rational examination of the reasons for and against gay marriage and for me, the only logical position, in part because the State already sanction Civil Partnership as an institution equal to marriage in law, is that State Licenced Weddings, those available through the Registry Office should be open to all members of our society....that is the States ultimate responsibilty, to serve the needs of its populace regardless of their colour, gender, creed or sexuality....allow religions to service the matrimonal needs of their congregations as they see fit, but the State has an ethical and legal responsibility to treat all with equality and fairness, some thing that is currently undermined by having a separation in civic unions.

 

[bhavv]

I've amended your question to what you intended



Here is another poll where the question asked was pretty similar

Do you support or oppose the Government's proposal to legalise same-sex marriage?

Which I'm sure you will agree is almost exactly what you asked for and so can not possibly have any Catholic bias as you yourself wrote it ?

Agreed ?



http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/Premier_Gay_Marriage_data_tables_Nov11.pdf


Sorry, 83% are opposed to it...





Petard, hoisted

Didnt we already conclude that the Comres questions are a load of crap? To anyone capable of reading that is clearly obvious. They wouldnt even be good enough to get 50% if presented as part of any University's coursework.

 

[Castiel]

Regardless of your personal views, you pick obviously biased questionnaires, one with a Catholic agenda, and another one with nonsensical questions written with a muppet's English skills

And you think I'm embarrassed over pointing that out? Never.

I have only given one poll, and only because it was specific to the discussion under debate, both regarding marriage and regarding the Catholic Church.

And I think you should be embarrassed by your general attitude and habit of posting without consideration, both of the members and the actual topic under discussion.

 

[D.P.]

Just because the answers given are not what you wish them to be, doesn't make them homophobic, any more than responses to immigration are racist.
Even if people's response is homophobic, this is still a democracy and this is still what the majority wish for.

I don't care what other people think in particular. Most people are easily manipulated. Asking a biased sample population an opinion tells you exactly nothing about morality or correctness of any question.

You could ask the UK many different mathematical questions and most would get it wrong. that doesn't make the maths wrong but simply tells you most people are not very good at maths.


Thankfully your understanding of democracy is not how the actual government is run. Which is lucky for you, otherwise you might easily find that the church and Christianity is illegal, and anyone who practices it will be locked up. Luckily the general public can't decide to outlaw you based on your religious views.

The rights of minorities are protected.

 

[Castiel]

Didnt we already conclude that the Comres questions are a load of crap? To anyone capable of reading that is clearly obvious.

No we didn't. Why do you find it necessary to be so aggressive all the time....can you simply disagree with poll in a reasoned and polite way?

 

[Fran]

Didnt we already conclude that the Comres questions are a load of crap? To anyone capable of reading that is clearly obvious.

No, what we concluded is that you moaned about the questions and so proposed one of your own as "unbiased"

That exact question was then asked in another poll

And yet again it came out against gay marriage...



Admit it, your point about bias is wrong and you proved that all by yourself
You can't write the questions yourself and STILL claim they are biased

 

[bhavv]

No, what we concluded is that you moaned about the questions and so proposed one of your own as "unbiased"

That exact question was then asked in another poll

And yet again it came out against gay marriage...



Admit it, your point about bias is wrong and you proved that all by yourself

Do yourself a favour and refer to post 738.

Comres make crap misleading questionnaires, I wonder why they are never referenced anywhere.

 

[Castiel]

I don't care what other people think in particular. Most people are easily manipulated. Asking a biased sample population an opinion tells you exactly nothing about morality or correctness of any question.

You could ask the UK many different mathematical questions and most would get it wrong. that doesn't make the maths wrong but simply tells you most people are not very good at maths.


Thankfully your understanding of democracy is not how the actual government is run. Which is lucky for you, otherwise you might easily find that the church and Christianity is illegal, and anyone who practices it will be locked up. Luckily the general public can't decide to outlaw you based on your religious views.

The rights of minorities are protected.

Are we sure the sample was unduely biased?

It seems unlikely that ComRes would run an intentionally biased poll, particularly with regard sample selection.

Disagree with the findings by all means, I do to some extent, but you are an intelligent man and there is no need to be so dismissive.

 

[bhavv]

Here we go people, Comres debunked:

ComRes tools include three public opinion omnibus surveys every week, an unrivalled range of political omnibus tools among MPs, MEPs, devolved legislators and local councillors, and a wealth of specialist omnibuses including the only available survey of UK Christians.

Only asking UK Christians, what a load of *******.

The catholic thing you posted earlier, let me take a wild guess on that one .... they only asked Christians too right?

Fail less next time.