The tolerant Catholic Church

spudbynight said:
Well - lets look at things objectively. If the Catholic Church is right then surely that remains constant irrespective of how popular it is with non Catholics.

A question for others on this topic. Should the law be changed do you think Catholic Schools should be able to continue to teach that marriage is between a man and a woman?
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I wish the law would change so we wouldn't have public religious schools all together.
 
Xordium said:
No. What other laws then should we allow Catholics to ignore and teach their version of? The Old Testament laws for example?
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So then in your view this proposed change in legislation will affect Catholics? It isn't a case of them staying out of something that doesn't affect them?

Doesn't this really negate all the posts from people complaining about the Catholic Church trying to interfere in their lives?

Just to confirm as well that you are proposing a breach of the human rights of Catholics as set down in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
 
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spudbynight said:
A question for others on this topic. Should the law be changed do you think Catholic Schools should be able to continue to teach that marriage is between a man and a woman?
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Catholic schools should be able to teach that they believe marriage should be between a man and a woman if, and only if, they are able to present the viewpoint fairly that it isn´t a viewpoint that everyone subscribes to i.e. there is a contrary school of thought that marriage or civil union should be possible between two consenting adults of whatever gender.

For me it would be a bit like presenting creationism - it is fine to say it exists but to present it as the prevailing view of the world does not seem like a sensible way to proceed. The Catholic Church does not have to like that homosexuality exists but to pretend it does not is not a supportable viewpoint and not one that we should be encouraging or enshrining in law.

steve-h said:
I wish the law would change so we wouldn't have public religious schools all together.
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Religious schools can be very good in terms of academic achievements as well as providing a structure for their students, don´t throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
 
semi-pro waster said:
Religious schools can be very good in terms of academic achievements as well as providing a structure for their students, don´t throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
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Because they have religious studies? I very much doubt that. However it was the reason I was christened and sent to a few. :rolleyes:
 
steve-h said:
Because they have religious studies? I very much doubt that. However it was the reason I was christened and sent to a few. :rolleyes:
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Not specifically because they have religious studies but schools that are linked to a religion can be very good - I just don´t think that a blanket ban on them is necessarily a good result when they can be very effective. There is an argument that their curriculum may need some vetting to avoid giving ideas that may be detrimental to their students functioning well in society (e.g. if the school was promoting intolerence) but other than that it is probably preferable to let them be - if they aren´t harming anyone then don´t interfere too much.
 
spudbynight said:
So then in your view this proposed change in legislation will affect Catholics? It isn't a case of them staying out of something that doesn't affect them?

Doesn't this really negate all the posts from people complaining about the Catholic Church trying to interfere in their lives?

Just to confirm as well that you are proposing a breach of the human rights of Catholics as set down in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
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By answering that question I was well aware it was an "ambush". ;)

To the first part I would offer that this is a change that will affect the whole of society so naturally as part of that society Catholics will be affected like everyone. I have not stated otherwise if someone has then you need to direct your query at that person. To the second part I would offer the same - you need to address the person who said that specific thing.

Now the final part if you detail which "human right" you are specifically talking about I will answer it in short order.
 
How do you know the reason religious schools are good is due to religion?
Have you ever considered the possibility that religious schools attract more middle class students, who have parents who are very insistent on their children doing well?
We have a culture where many parents take their kids to Church, just so they can get into a decent secondary. I think this has something to do with why they do better than non religious schools.
 
Xordium said:
By answering that question I was well aware it was an "ambush". ;)

To the first part I would offer that this is a change that will affect the whole of society so naturally as part of that society Catholics will be affected like everyone. I have not stated otherwise if someone has then you need to direct your query at that person. To the second part I would offer the same - you need to address the person who said that specific thing.

Now the final part if you detail which "human right" you are specifically talking about I will answer it in short order.
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I was aiming my questions at the group in general.

;)

It is Article 18 in particular I refer to.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
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I remain of the contention that the rights of Catholics will be impinged should this change in legislation come in. I am also of the opinion that many of the posters on this thread (really not aiming this at you in any way) while talking about rights are really only interested if they like the rights in question.
 
RomanNose said:
How do you know the reason religious schools are good is due to religion?
Have you ever considered the possibility that religious schools attract more middle class students, who have parents who are very insistent on their children doing well?
We have a culture where many parents take their kids to Church, just so they can get into a decent secondary. I think this has something to do with why they do better than non religious schools.
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Well funnily enough the Catholic schools with the best results are the ones that have the strictest entry requirements. I mean strictest in the sense of most Catholic. They also favour Catholic children from disadvantaged backgrounds over anyone else.
 
spudbynight said:
Well - lets look at things objectively. If the Catholic Church is right then surely that remains constant irrespective of how popular it is with non Catholics.
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And if we are looking at it objectively what if the Catholic church is wrong?

spudbynight said:
A question for others on this topic. Should the law be changed do you think Catholic Schools should be able to continue to teach that marriage is between a man and a woman?
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I don't see why not, for a Catholic marriage it would still be the case.
 
spudbynight said:
Well funnily enough the Catholic schools with the best results are the ones that have the strictest entry requirements. I mean strictest in the sense of most Catholic. They also favour Catholic children from disadvantaged backgrounds over anyone else.
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You don't think it has anything to do with the extra funding they get in the terms of diocese funds, parental donations and a million and one other requests for money they keep making of parents? (Speaking as someone whose daughter goes to a Catholic Primary school)
 
I think ofsted know better than you
"Selection, even on religious grounds, is likely to attract well-behaved children from stable backgrounds," said a spokesperson for Ofsted in the Times Educational Supplement, 16/2/01.
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How can you complain about that article, when you just said that Catholic schools who selectively take the most Catholic students are the best?Without providing any proof at all.
 
RDM said:
You don't think it has anything to do with the extra funding they get in the terms of diocese funds, parental donations and a million and one other requests for money they keep making of parents? (Speaking as someone whose daughter goes to a Catholic Primary school)
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That is why ours is better....the extra 10% Diocese funding into the curriculum and the grants it supplies for capital projects.

However, there is also in comparison to the nearby CofE and Secular school a stricter uniform and behaviour policy as well as increased opportunities for extra curricular activites and increased practical support for Parents in respect to helping their Children with their curriculum etc.....

Their programs that help the low-medium achievers when they come up from Primary are excellent and have meant that the School outperforms every other school in the country (including the two Grammar Schools in our area who are the top schools in the country overall) with respect to increasing the prospects and educational attainment of those low-medium acheivers....

It also only selects a percentage of Catholic only children from without the catchment area...my son for example is not Catholic.

Overall the school has better results due to a combination of good policy and increased funding to facilitate that policy......and I have nothing but good things to say about it.
 
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RomanNose said:
I think ofsted know better than you


How can you complain about that article, when you just said that Catholic schools who selectively take the most Catholic students are the best?Without providing any proof at all.
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I spoke about the best results. They are published each year in the form of league tables. Pretty easy to find if you disagree with my statement.

As for Ofsted - can you explain why you think they know better? They have come under much criticism from the government for making statements that were pretty wide of the mark when grading schools.
 
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