I'm nicer, I buy people coffee and juice n stuff.....I even join the paid queue when I want my bacon butty quicker than the chav people.
Double D's inside...
- Thread starter MrSix
- Start date
I'm nicer, I buy people coffee and juice n stuff.....I even join the paid queue when I want my bacon butty quicker than the chav people.
Sod all to do with Diesel, everything to do with shelf petrol engines and budgets. Wait till other manufacturers turn up with Petrol and hybrid engines, such as Porsche in 2014. Audi have thrown money at 3 cars that would pay for half of the other cars on the grid, it's simply down to developing their tech past the budget of the competition.
Associate
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You missed off Red smoke?
Caporegime
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No Smoke? Must be well slow innit....
Meanwhile, in that scary parallel universe...
[TW]Fox;21615669 said:MrSix, With you being so into petrol (Which is fine, the world would be boring if we couldn't have arguments about things) I was hoping you'd at least not trot out the power line.
Surely you must know how power works? Big power flywheel figures are only really useful for telling other people on the internet how great petrol engines are.
It is torque that dictates how quick a car really is - the torque figure tells you how the power is delivered. High power/low torque = peaky, revvy power delivery, Low power/High torque = low down, world turning shove with other mixes being somewhere in between. And its that extreme which is what I like. I don't like Honda VTEC engines, for example (You'll find me going LOL NO TORQUE, all day long)
An engine with 400lb/ft of torque doing just 2500rpm is twice that of a petrol engine with half that doing 5000rpm, surely? This is why your average Golf diesel is more awesome than a Formula One car. It's also why my Citroen Xantia weighed the same as a Civic Type R, had the same torque figure as a Civic Type R and so was just as fast.
Flywheel power figures alone are meaningless because between the flywheel is separated from the wheels by...... a gearbox. Which you then have to use! This is why a Honda S2000 has 'no torque' and is rubbish. This is why a Skoda Fabia diesel has loads of torque and is faster than a porsche. This is why Le Mans is dominated by diesel engines. (WRC doesn't count because the rules greatly favour petrol, it is not a level playing field).
One of the biggest benefits of high torque but comparatively low power is that it's more relaxing/effortless to drive. You don't need to use the gearbox so much to get the most out of the engine. But this is the sort of thing you can appreciate in both a big barge and a fast road hatch. Surely for fast road driving you don't want to waste your time stirring the box? It's a chore to be in the right gear for the performance you want - it takes away so much of the enjoyment of driving. A decent automatic box is irrelevent, as the box ensures you are in the right gear which is pointless if yo uhave a diesel anyway.
The issue I have with petrol is that a petrol powered car is almost always something you buy out of ignorance and then try to convince everyone (including yourself) you bought because you genuinely wanted. Whereas a diesel equivalent tends to be something you bought because you know how epic it is, therefore such self-justification isn't required.
EddScott is a prime example of this. (Sorry to use you) He has recently purchased an Audi A4 2.0 TSI without even viewing it before buying it. Even before it had arrived he had begun the transition to petrol evangelised - about a car he'd never driven! He has no idea how it drove, having never driven a car with the 200bhp engine in it, but he was already in full swing trying to convince himself and others he didn't want a 2.0TDI anyway. It's just bonkers. What's wrong with saying 'Yea, a 2.0TDI would have been nice for the 'torques' but I needed to look cool in front of my mates so I had to buy the petrol'? Why does it always have to be about how smooth and revvy it is when in the real world the the 4 cylinder VAG TDI engine is basically a V8 and is the second coming of your preferred prophet? Nobody really buys a 2.0TSI because they like the engine they buy it because they didn't realise they need the TDI instead.
Which moves me nicely onto my next car. My next car (though a few years off I'd imagine) is likely to be a 535i. Is this because it's way better than a 530D? Is this because it has huge piles of torque? No. None of these things. It's because for every 1 530d there are 100 535i's and in order to be able to get exactly the sort of spec I want I'd need to order a new 530D which is something I simply cannot afford to do. So, I'll probably buy a petrol instead, because money prevents me buying the diesel car I'd rather have and money prevents me availing myself of something bonkers like a new 320d. Quite why this must be taboo I've no idea. Everyone is desperate to avoid the main reason they bought a petrol - because they can't deal with the diesel stink on their hands - Buy some gloves! You as well - would you seriously have bought a Leon Cupra R if a mapped Leon TDI cost the same up front to buy? Of course you wouldn't.
And this moves onto my final point -why petrols frustrate me. They are usually bought because they are perceived to be better to drive, even if this isn't the case. Diesel should be the default choice. Do 4k miles a year around town? Get a diesel. Do 15k a year and have a budget of £2500? Buy a diesel full of win that does a few mpg and has more torques than the rubbish petrol one.
You'll find no complaint from me when somebody buying a car to do 4k a year or something wants a diesel. They need a diesel. They'll get recommended a diesel by me. A diesel is so much more than just a tool for a job, but regardless, It's always the right tool for the job.
And seriously, the clattery noise at the lights thing. You can't even notice it!
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Oi - I chose my diesel over the petrol equivalent....as the 1.8 petrol is rotten and there is no type R in 5 door which I was told in no uncertain terms we absolutely "needed"
I may be a bit unique though as I don't really care about the economy, just wanted the car - though it certainly doesn't hurt
Soldato
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pcoltrane just won the thread
1.8t and diesel
My petrol has in the region of 230lb peak torque which creates enough trouble but the blower won't blow enough to sustain that shove high in the rev band
For 1200ish for parts and mapping I would have been able to get a hybrid turbo with enough flow for 300bhp, the necessary supporting mods plus mapping.
The aim would have been the same 230lb but sustained much further. Maths said circa 260bhp for those aims.
There would be no reason for it not to have oe response and driveability and consumption when driven normally
It wouldn't be a total wheelspin monster either so oe clutch and open diff would still be acceptable.
Being a 1j chassis car tho, it would never handle so would be a tad pointless
My petrol has in the region of 230lb peak torque which creates enough trouble but the blower won't blow enough to sustain that shove high in the rev band
For 1200ish for parts and mapping I would have been able to get a hybrid turbo with enough flow for 300bhp, the necessary supporting mods plus mapping.
The aim would have been the same 230lb but sustained much further. Maths said circa 260bhp for those aims.
There would be no reason for it not to have oe response and driveability and consumption when driven normally
It wouldn't be a total wheelspin monster either so oe clutch and open diff would still be acceptable.
Being a 1j chassis car tho, it would never handle so would be a tad pointless
Is there a dyno chart showing the PD130 producing 320 HP and good power at 6000 RPM?
http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/jetta-mk5-2-0-16v-tdi-bkd/
I think this is the Jetta in question.
Looking at the figures produced I would be tempted with those figures but I'd really want a petrol engine with 300HP not a diesel with 300HP.
I'm hoping these guys can sort out an EGR replacement pipe for my car.
No, I was wrong - they shift at 5500rpm on road driving...but here's the latest dyno chart (hub dyno so these are at the wheel figures, not flywheel).
