Do extra terrestrials exist? If so...

[Elevon]

Our solar system is something like only 4 billions years old so makes me wonder about the other 9 billions years beforehand and also the future,end of the day we are not unique just one bit of dust that's part of the bigger universe.


Some more old news,

Based on what Kepler's found so far, the study authors think that up to 2.7 percent of all sunlike stars in the Milky Way host so-called Earth analogs. As of this February, Kepler has confirmed 15 new planets and found an additional 1,235 planet candidates, including the smallest planet yet spied outside our solar system. Kepler will collect transit data for a minimum of three and a half years, allowing for a more complete planetary census at a later date.

"There are about a hundred billion sunlike stars within the Milky Way," said study co-author Joe Catanzarite, a scientist with NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL). "Two percent of those might have Earth analogs, so you have two billion Earth analog planets in the galaxy," he added. "Then you start thinking about other galaxies. There are something like 50 billion, and if each one has two billion Earthlike planets, it's mind boggling."

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblo...many-will-prove-to-support-advanced-life.html


End of the day life is created in the universe we are proof of that so to think we are only ones out there is very wrong IMHO,we have not even been here all that time either.

 

[Davepen]

You believe blindly because they have an assumption of authority?

What if two groups of scientists are stating polar opposites of each other, what do you believe then?

I never said "believe anything blindly" but simply that testing everything for yourself is impossible.

 

[Castiel]

I never said "believe anything blindly" but simply that testing everything for yourself is impossible.

I think you are taking it too literally.

For example, One group of Scientists say that extraterrestrial life is highly probable, another say that extraterrestrial life is highly improbable.

How do you decide who to believe, both are scientists, both have what they consider enough evidence to make a plausible proposition, so given that you are not a scientist and therefore cannot literally recreate their formulas, experiments, research etc, what do you do?

You would (I hope) read what both groups have to say, maybe do some rudimentary research yourself, if only reading what other scientists and/or observers have to say and then you would decide for yourself which is the most logical position, given the information that they have supplied....this is applying critical thinking to the problem.....in other words you are testing the logical veracity of what each group are saying and then judging each based upon their respective merits...

Therefore, you are effectively Believing only what you yourself test and judge to be true.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

What if two groups of scientists are stating polar opposites of each other, what do you believe then?

And what's even funnier is that 1000 NASA Scientists can say they believe in life on other planets but there is no proof it has been here but one of them can say they believe that Aliens are here and all the CT'ers take that one view.

 

[semi-pro waster]

What if two groups of scientists are stating polar opposites of each other, what do you believe then?

I then refer to Neils Bohr "We all agree your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough" and go with the maddest suggestion*.

I'd generally agree that you should test such things as far as you are able but with the best will in the World you're not always going to be able to test everything in as much depth as would be desirable. I know I'm not always satisfied that I've been able to investigate everything as far as I'd like or I simply would never achieve the correct level of understanding as it's beyond me so I have to accept that on the balance of probabilities it's more likely than not. Then again you can equally argue it's broadly irrelevant in many cases since I don't need to have an in-depth appreciation for whatever it is to work - I can afford to be agnostic about the mechanism.

*Do you think this is how conspiracy theorists determine what to believe?

 

[ethan]

Why are you under that impression?



We have no evidence of life elsewhere.

It is therefore possible that there isn't any life elsewhere.

If there isn't any life elsewhere, life on Earth would have to be unique to a staggeringly unlikely combination of freak circumstances.



I can't phrase it any more simply than that.

(1) because my view is based on what little evidence we have and there is no evidence as yet to the contrary. I refer you to http://gizmodo.com/5704158/nasa-finds-new-life which has been found on this planet unlike anything we could have expected. Something of a major hurdle has been crossed in finding life as we do not know it in what had previously been thought to be impossible circumstances. That is to say if we can find life in "impossible circumstances", what are we likely to find in favourable ones.

I also refer to the possibility that life could have been seeded here from space by comets etc and the recent discovery that shows it is entirely possible for amino acids to survive entry in to our atmosphere:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9169518/Life-brought-to-Earth-by-comets.html

Acceptance and further evidence of this would make it most likely that life on Earth would not be unique, and left to a staggeringly unlikely combination of freak circumstances.

 

[Castiel]

I then refer to Neils Bohr "We all agree your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough" and go with the maddest suggestion*.

I always liked:

Every sentence I utter must be understood not as an affirmation, but as a question.

I'd generally agree that you should test such things as far as you are able but with the best will in the World you're not always going to be able to test everything in as much depth as would be desirable. I know I'm not always satisfied that I've been able to investigate everything as far as I'd like or I simply would never achieve the correct level of understanding as it's beyond me so I have to accept that on the balance of probabilities it's more likely than not. Then again you can equally argue it's broadly irrelevant in many cases since I don't need to have an in-depth appreciation for whatever it is to work - I can afford to be agnostic about the mechanism.

True indeed, the part of Buddha quote that Davepen is disputing is not about knowing how the mechanism works or having an equal knowledge to those who profess expertise....it is about applying your own faculty, logic and intellect to decide for yourself if it is reasonable to assume that the claims are true, possibly/probably true, not true, or something in-between.....it is simply about evaluating and examining assumptions and conclusions rather than just accepting them as true based on the supposed authority of the person making them.

*Do you think this is how conspiracy theorists determine what to believe?

I read the quote written thus:

We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct.

I like that.

 

[semi-pro waster]

True indeed, the part of Buddha quote that Davepen is disputing is not about knowing how the mechanism works or having an equal knowledge to those who profess expertise....it is about applying your own faculty, logic and intellect to decide for yourself if it is reasonable to assume that the claims are true, possibly/probably true, not true, or something in-between.....it is simply about evaluating and examining assumptions and conclusions rather than just accepting them as true based on the supposed authority of the person making them.

Absolutely, I didn't think we'd be disagreeing on it. I was just expanding slightly about how I approach such matters.

I read the quote written thus:

We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct.

I like that.

That's pretty much how I read it and it's an elegant way of phrasing the thought. And I'd have to agree, I don't think that conspiracy theorists are necessarily that logical about what they believe.

 

[Angilion]

(1) because my view is based on what little evidence we have and there is no evidence as yet to the contrary. I refer you to http://gizmodo.com/5704158/nasa-finds-new-life which has been found on this planet unlike anything we could have expected. Something of a major hurdle has been crossed in finding life as we do not know it in what had previously been thought to be impossible circumstances. That is to say if we can find life in "impossible circumstances", what are we likely to find in favourable ones.

I also refer to the possibility that life could have been seeded here from space by comets etc and the recent discovery that shows it is entirely possible for amino acids to survive entry in to our atmosphere:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9169518/Life-brought-to-Earth-by-comets.html

Acceptance and further evidence of this would make it most likely that life on Earth would not be unique, and left to a staggeringly unlikely combination of freak circumstances.

I don't think the discovery of life in extreme environments on Earth and the fact that it is possible for amino acids to survive entry into our atmosphere shows that the universe is "designed" for life, i.e. your claim that I was responding to.

I also don't think that the existence life on Earth and the size of the universe is proof that life must exist elsewhere, i.e. the claim by thedoc46 that I was responding to.

I think that the only two things we know for certain (that life can exist and that the universe is extremely large) imply that with our extremely limited knowledge it is currently reasonable to make a tentative conclusion that some life of some kind probably exists elsewhere. If it doesn't, then clearly life on Earth is unique to a staggeringly unlikely combination of freak circumstances. That remains a possibility, since we have no evidence of life anywhere else.

 

[Castiel]

We are bits of stellar matter that got cold by accident, bits of a star gone wrong.

Sir Arthur Eddington.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I think that the only two things we know for certain (that life can exist and that the universe is extremely large) imply that with our extremely limited knowledge it is currently reasonable to make a tentative conclusion that some life of some kind probably exists elsewhere. If it doesn't, then clearly life on Earth is unique to a staggeringly unlikely combination of freak circumstances. That remains a possibility, since we have no evidence of life anywhere else.

For at least two decades I thought we were totally unique.
I remember watching a documentary many years ago about how the Earth was formed and how all the ingredients came together in the exact amounts at the exact times and the chances of it happening again are zero.
Then of course we've got to have life evoluting (is that a word?) into a humanoid shape with intelligence.
You take all that and it is stupid to think it could happen again especially with all Alien visitations being 'humanoid' in shape.
There's still a big part of me that thinks this way but I now believe that life is a big part of this Universe and will find a way but I don't expect anything to look remotely like us.
However, with the millions and millions of different lifeform shapes on this planet Alien life will look like one of them.

 

[djxput]

Do you believe in extra terrestials/aliens? If so why? or Why do you not believe?

Have you had a personal experience that is unexplainable or has your own reseach in ufology reinforced your own belief? Please share

I believe they do - just like we exist ... think about it ... trillons of stars with more planets and what we are the only planet in the whole universe that decided to grow life?

errr didnt they say there is water on mars etc ... as far as aliens here - nah ... sure it would be cool but seems hokey to me

 

[spankingtexan]

Proof is out there,let me know when you have been to all the planets in the universe , I forgot to say about the new planets and star systems being formed as time goes on with new chance for possible new life ,everything is recycled in one way or another.

It's not arrogant to think there is life when you realize what the universe is made of and we are only a fraction of fraction of a fraction of it ,lets see stars,planets,galaxies all things that do exist in abundance with a size scale that nobody here can imagine.
I have maths on my side,also we know there are other stars even stars like our sun out there ie G2 class ,planets we know exists ,galaxies we know exists,so why is hard to think that some other planets don't have life,we are all made from same material that other stars/planets come from.

This thread reminds me of the black hole debate,we know we have a supermassive black hole at centre of our galaxy by mathematics and motion of stars around the invisible region etc....but because we can't see it directly its not classed as 100% proof but very high probability .

Agree with this.

 

[cHk4]

That's the thing with science, it's a form of ignorance, we've only been looking for life as we know it, it's ignorant to think every form of life out there has to be made/created the same way as us. Life is adaptable and wants to survive so it will adapt to it's surroundings.

 

[ChocolateStarfishRammer]

How can there not be?

How could we possibly be the only planet with life on. Crazy.

And I do think we've been visted in the past.. around the Mayan and Egyptians sort of times.

Perhaps not so much now.. but even if there were spaceships flying around, We wouldnt see them. If there smart enough to build spaceships, there smart enough to fly at night and put two flashing lights on each wing to make us think its a plane lol.

 

[cHk4]

How can there not be?

How could we possibly be the only planet with life on. Crazy.

And I do think we've been visted in the past.. around the Mayan and Egyptians sort of times.

Perhaps not so much now.. but even if there were spaceships flying around, We wouldnt see them. If there smart enough to build spaceships, there smart enough to fly at night and put two flashing lights on each wing to make us think its a plane lol.

I agree, one galaxy alone ( the sombrero galaxy ) has over 800 billion stars alone... That is just one galaxy and it's not even the biggest... Now that is just stars imagine planets now... So we're looking at trillions upon trillions of planets... So we're to believe we are the 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance of having life on our planet? It's just ignorance.

I do kind of think we may have been visited in the past like you said around those times, some of the stuff they achieved was incredible.

 

[ChocolateStarfishRammer]

I agree, one galaxy alone ( the sombrero galaxy ) has over 800 billion stars alone... That is just one galaxy and it's not even the biggest... Now that is just stars imagine planets now... So we're looking at trillions upon trillions of planets... So we're to believe we are the 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance of having life on our planet? It's just ignorance.

I do kind of think we may have been visited in the past like you said around those times, some of the stuff they achieved was incredible.

Yeah exactly.. and our planet doesn't just have us.. it has thousands of different life forms. Yes, defiantly, everything in the universe is crammed onto our little world.. hmm..

Yeah agree.. theres just too much stuff that those blokes with sticks achieved back in the day and too many things and clues here and there that something just doesnt add up.

But either way.. suppose we'll all find out on 21st December anyway.

 

[Combat squirrel]

How is this thread still going? Of course it probably exists, the odds are overwhelming, you'd be an idiot to think otherwise.

Does life exist as advanced as our own? - probably. Does life exist so advanced that they can traverse the universe in nearly no time at all?.... No idea, they would have to be incredibly advanced.

Frankly I think a lot of people forget just how big space is, yeah everyone is 'aware' its big, but I don't think they really KNOW.....it's just colossal, so big the very basics of physics as we understand are the limiting factors....hell, light is so slow in the grand scheme of things, it's almost a joke now slow it moves......because so far, we know this to be the fastest thing, our chances of communicating with another species is '0'

 

[Bulldog14]

How can there not be?

How could we possibly be the only planet with life on. Crazy.

And I do think we've been visted in the past.. around the Mayan and Egyptians sort of times.

Perhaps not so much now.. but even if there were spaceships flying around, We wouldnt see them. If there smart enough to build spaceships, there smart enough to fly at night and put two flashing lights on each wing to make us think its a plane lol.

The only credibility I could give to ancient alien claims is that in the past we wouldn't have recognized them for what they were, and if they knew that they could move among us more freely. They would just be yet another mythical creature to tell campfire stories about.

Nowdays most educated people would recognize them for what they are, and again, if they were aware of this they would withdraw from overt interaction with us.

Not that I really believe that they were ever here in the past, but if an even somewhat benign alien species has been monitoring us since we first started banging rocks and sticks together I would suspect that it would go this way.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

How is this thread still going?

Why shouldn't it be?
Would you like it closed?

I have maths on my side,also we know there are other stars even stars like our sun out there ie G2 class ,planets we know exists ,galaxies we know exists,so why is hard to think that some other planets don't have life,we are all made from same material that other stars/planets come from.

You're making an assumption that life can only happen on a planet with a G2 class star.
We might be totally unique for a G2 star and life could be everywhere else.