david cameron ''children should stand up''

[Woden]

You can when the argument is moronic.

How is it moronic? Your teaching kids to show respect to teachers whether or not they deserve it. Most teachers are good, deserve the respect, some are utter tools.

The same thing happens in work. Do you really want a bunch of blindly following the orders of an inept manager because they have been raised to always show respect to those higher up the chain? We all know not all managers are good at their job.

I take you stand when your manager enters the room and only ever refer to him as "sir" or "Mr Whateverson"?

 

[alexakasloth]

What about scientists, doctor, those who actually did more work to get their degree, do you stand up when they enter the room? Didn't think so.

When I was at school and we had visitors we would. It's a simple method of teaching children discipline, something that many children have to (unfortunately) be taught in school.
Do I stand up when a doctor enters a room now? If I'm in his or her office I would to greet them with a hand shake. A scientist? Well that depends, on a bus? No. If I was meeting them, well see the previous example. There's a wide amount of context that could be given to your question.
What would you do in these scenarios?

 

[Housey]

How is it moronic? Your teaching kids to show respect to teachers whether or not they deserve it. Most teachers are good, deserve the respect, some are utter tools.

The same thing happens in work. Do you really want a bunch of blindly following the orders of an inept manager because they have been raised to always show respect to those higher up the chain? We all know not all managers are good at their job.

I take you stand when your manager enters the room and only ever refer to him as "sir" or "Mr Whateverson"?

I think your post indicates a person not happy with his job or his boss, correct?

 

[Housey]

No one can teach you life.

Several people can, that's how it works.

 

[Tyron]

So the nub of the issue is that you are elitist. It has nothing to do with respect. Let's all compare salaries and degrees then and see who is worthy of respect.

How am I being elitist? I'm guessing you didn't read my post well. The guy said they should be respected for being a teacher due to the work and effort put in. But in reality their degree is not on the same level as a scientist, doctor ect and yet no one stands up when they enter the room, not even for the surgeon who just saved your partners life.

Who is to say that the two don't go hand-in-hand? Somebody who is extremely smart but really arrogant is no better than somebody who is very stupid but is very respectful of those around him.

It is no ones job but that person to learn the repercussions of their arrogance.

 

[scrlk]

We still do it at my school, although it's mainly when the 'senior management' staff come in. Usually accompanied by some rather frantic arm waving from the teacher.

Then again, there is the stereotype that Catholic schools are stricter/more conservative than the rest, which I find a whole load of rubbish.

 

[Tyron]

Several people can, that's how it works.

They're called life coaches.

 

[Housey]

They're called life coaches.

Nah, they're teachers, you call them what you want, but they are teaching you.

 

[Woden]

I think your post indicates a person not happy with his job or his boss, correct?

Very happy with my current job. Mainly because I don't have arthritis from standing up to my managers every 5 mins. That and I am not afraid to tell them when I think they are wrong, no one is perfect. I have had some right thicko managers in my time, but then who hasn't.

I can only assume that you can't, or won't earn your respect. That you have to rely purely on fear and conditioning.

 

[Fubsy]

It's not discipline though. It's forcing people to do things they really don't want to do. And I agree with you that is a sad idea, but that's what I'm saying it doesn't have to be "YOU MUST GO TO SCHOOL FOR 12 YEARS AND THAT IS FINAL". There may be other options, and if there isn't well the kids will likely end up with bad grades end up with a bad job and most likely regret that they hadn't paid attention in school. But that's life and that's their fault.

I actually failed my German GCSE because EVERY lesson I attended was just like a playgroup of morons jumping around, shouting and being general arses.
I got my parents in to the school and got some limited extra tuition, but I was robbed of a proper lesson schedule for that subject and ultimately failed along with everyone else in that class, I believe that wasn't my fault or the teachers but the mindlessness of others. What a waste.

 

[madteamkiller]

I actually failed my German GCSE because EVERY lesson I attended was just like a playgroup of morons jumping around, shouting and being general arses.
I got my parents in to the school and got some limited extra tuition, but I was robbed of a proper lesson schedule for that subject and ultimately failed along with everyone else in that class, I believe that wasn't my fault or the teachers but the mindlessness of others. What a waste.

But the best option here would be to split the students that want to learn from the ones that don't. This is why I find colleges much better than school. The students there want to learn, and as a result, there is zero disruption, atleast in my experience anyway.

 

[Housey]

Very happy with my current job. Mainly because I don't have arthritis from standing up to my managers every 5 mins. That and I am not afraid to tell them when I think they are wrong, no one is perfect. I have had some right thicko managers in my time, but then who hasn't.

I can only assume that you can't, or won't earn your respect. That you have to rely purely on fear and conditioning.

Then you assume wrong, though I assumed right it seems...

 

[Mason-]

I actually failed my German GCSE because EVERY lesson I attended was just like a playgroup of morons jumping around, shouting and being general arses.
I got my parents in to the school and got some limited extra tuition, but I was robbed of a proper lesson schedule for that subject and ultimately failed along with everyone else in that class, I believe that wasn't my fault or the teachers but the mindlessness of others. What a waste.

I had a similar experience in my French GCSE, look at what I discussed with mollymoo a few posts back. I think that's the best option.

Start splitting the options up earlier.

 

[cm1179]

I actually failed my German GCSE because EVERY lesson I attended was just like a playgroup of morons jumping around, shouting and being general arses.

my art class was like this and it was so annoying as i really enjoyed my art. come to think of it, by the time i'd hit 13, i'd really had enough of school.

most of my teachers were basically soft or couldn't be arsed and i went to what was (statistically) a very good school. my french teacher was over 60 and ran a tight ship and delivered a great lesson. i'd have loved every other lesson to be the same.

i remember being in maths and the class being rowdey and the teacher saying ''are you going to listen or not? you'll need this one day'' he then followed that with ''well, you may become scrap merchants or footballers, so what do i know?'' i should've walked right there and then.

 

[Woden]

Then you assume wrong, though I assumed right it seems...

Didn't read the post then? I shall copypaste the first sentence for you "Very happy with my current job". In fact the only downside is I am not there enough, I want more hours!

Just what have you got against people earning their respect?

 

[Castiel]

No but they're advocating having to stand up every time the teacher enters the room.

They are advocating showing a modicum of respect and common courtesy to those whose authority deserve it.

Their authority? They're there to teach.

they are also in loco parentis and have both a moral and legal duty to your care and development, this includes the teaching of respect and manners....they have authority over you, you may not like it, but its there nonetheless.

The minimum? I think you have this backwards. It would be the entirety of going to school, if you do not listen and do the work then you fail at school and then at life. If I excel at my academics while lacking in social skills I would still be a success, like your boss who you hate due to his social skills but he excels in academics and is in a higher position.

You are in for a short sharp shock when you leave the comfort of school and enter the workforce.

I am not a robot and I have free will and should not be forced to confirm to made up standards which would be no different if everyone believed raising your hand instead meant showing respect.

You will find that conforming to standards and following rules is exactly what you will have to do throughout your life....no one is asking you to be a robot, but to follow a basic standard of behaviour.

Respect and manners are two different things.

Displaying respect is an integral part of good manners, it is about showing consideration to others. Something that seems to have passed you by it seems.

What's the difference between standing up or just raising your hand while seated? What if my version of showing respect is look at them and sit straight. Why should my beliefs be infringed?

Your beliefs?????

You mean to say that respect and consideration is against your belief system...really????

 

[Castiel]

You are applying politeness and manners with respect when it should not be the case. I am discussing respect, not politeness or manners.

Good manners includes showing someone respect and consideration, both for their position and for themselves. Respect is integral to common courtesy, and while respect can indeed be earned for an individuals qualities, it is also about your conduct and giving the required deference due to someones position and authority.

You need to accept this is how the 21st century is and deal with it.

In fact I don't, as you will find out when you leave school and realise that if you disrespect people who have authority over you then you will find yourself on the wrong end of them exercising that authority.

 

[Housey]

Didn't read the post then? I shall copypaste the first sentence for you "Very happy with my current job". In fact the only downside is I am not there enough, I want more hours!

Just what have you got against people earning their respect?

I suggest you read what I wrote, it isn't about earning respect, its about children showing courtesy to adults, I made that point clearly. I told you why your point was rubbish and you seem to be aligning respect with not being able to speak your mind, which again is very simplistic. You suggest you've had lots of managers and some were ****, but never been a manager or leader it would seem?

To be clear, teaching common courtesy and educating and defining respect in young people will not breed generations of people who never question, it never has and never will and to imply that is idiotic.

 

[Evoss]

We did at my school, I agree.

This is not China, Cameron.

With that name I take it you didn't either...

 

[wildman]

This is not China, Cameron.

which is why on average Chinese students achieve far higher standards in education than their UK counterparts. Disciplined schools = more chance of learning, rather than having a few feral hooligans who know they can't be controlled.

Attitudes like the above post is why UK fails TBH.