It wasn't your right to be angry for his rudeness that I was criticising, just the excessive response to it.
david cameron ''children should stand up''
- Thread starter cm1179
- Start date
It wasn't your right to be angry for his rudeness that I was criticising, just the excessive response to it.
To be fair, I did regret it afterwards, but he looked at me with such disdain. As if I'm a drunken urine-stained bum that fell asleep on the bench ... and he hit me rather hard for an old man. I'm just happy I didn't touch him. Would have regretted it greatly. I think we both learn lessons that day. Well I hope so anyway.
Im starting to understand i was brought up "better" than i thought. Good job Mum and Dad. I'm genuinely fascinated by people that don't share my views as i know no different. Im not a servile, submissive slave and i don't suffer fools, but i dont threaten old men either :O
Im sure someone touched on it previously in the thread and i Know i've mentioned it countless times before, My sister teaches and has had to deal with "disrespectful" and Violent kids. What kind of 14 year old starts quoting her rights as an EU citizen after hurling abuse and disrupting the lesson for the other 29?
Is it the Nanny State and 18 years of Labour contributing to a whole generation of parents with no power. Is it the breakdown of family values, If there is no respect at home can there be any in school? Respect is a joke word nowadays. All i think of is Ali G or a gang of Kids in Peckham stabbing each other cos no one respected each other, kiss my teeth innit.
Respect is a 2 way street but i still feel certain members of society like Docs., nurses, coppers and teachers should have it given automatically then if they are an idiot you can readjust the levels down if necessary.
Yeah Regulus as said you have every right to be angry but to physically threaten and old man, not the way I deal with stuff personally. I didnt mean offence, i respect you bro :O
Im sure someone touched on it previously in the thread and i Know i've mentioned it countless times before, My sister teaches and has had to deal with "disrespectful" and Violent kids. What kind of 14 year old starts quoting her rights as an EU citizen after hurling abuse and disrupting the lesson for the other 29?
Is it the Nanny State and 18 years of Labour contributing to a whole generation of parents with no power. Is it the breakdown of family values, If there is no respect at home can there be any in school? Respect is a joke word nowadays. All i think of is Ali G or a gang of Kids in Peckham stabbing each other cos no one respected each other, kiss my teeth innit.
Respect is a 2 way street but i still feel certain members of society like Docs., nurses, coppers and teachers should have it given automatically then if they are an idiot you can readjust the levels down if necessary.
Yeah Regulus as said you have every right to be angry but to physically threaten and old man, not the way I deal with stuff personally. I didnt mean offence, i respect you bro :O
I can empathize with how you felt.....it can be frustrating being treated with disrespect .
There does seem to be some sort of disconnect here were people cannot seem to seperate respect for the person as an individual and respect for the person's position. It is quite possible to not respect someone as an individual yet still show respect for their position.
Also, whilst respect is indeed a two way street and teachers should also show and treat their pupils with respect the relationship is different and the way respect is shown is different. Mutual respect does not always mean treating each other exactly the same.
Manners and respect are different but quite firmly interlinked, it is good manners to treat any guests to my house with respect and stand for them if they first come in to the room.
But those saying "telling kids to stand doesn't mean they are showing respect" are sort of missing the point. Respect, like many other skills, needs to be taught and that initial "Stand when an adult enters the room" is part of the teaching. Much like with a young child you insist they say please and thank you. To start with they are only saying it because you tell them to (and they learn that if they don't say please they don't get it and if they don't say thank you it gets taken off them) but eventually it will sink in and they will do it because they know it is good manners.
It is up to each school to define what the relationship between teacher and student is and what obvious signs of respect should be shown. But respect and discipline are the cornerstone of a good learning environment.
Also, whilst respect is indeed a two way street and teachers should also show and treat their pupils with respect the relationship is different and the way respect is shown is different. Mutual respect does not always mean treating each other exactly the same.
Manners and respect are different but quite firmly interlinked, it is good manners to treat any guests to my house with respect and stand for them if they first come in to the room.
But those saying "telling kids to stand doesn't mean they are showing respect" are sort of missing the point. Respect, like many other skills, needs to be taught and that initial "Stand when an adult enters the room" is part of the teaching. Much like with a young child you insist they say please and thank you. To start with they are only saying it because you tell them to (and they learn that if they don't say please they don't get it and if they don't say thank you it gets taken off them) but eventually it will sink in and they will do it because they know it is good manners.
It is up to each school to define what the relationship between teacher and student is and what obvious signs of respect should be shown. But respect and discipline are the cornerstone of a good learning environment.
Soldato
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Yet another stupid idea.
A teacher does not want children to interrupt whatever they are doing at the time. Depending on the school it can take ages to get the children on task. To blow that away for a Victorian idea defeats the hard work put in by the teacher to get the class to settle and start work.
There is no respect in getting a surly group of teenagers to their feet when they make it obvious by their body language and the way they eventually stand up that they are obviously doing it under protest.
You could argue that, by doing this kind of thing, they then learn that sometimes in life you have to do things you don't really want to or feel you shouldn't have to instead of the "I will do what I want and to hell with everyone else" attitude that seems prevalent today.... As usual though, they see it as a personal vendetta towards them instead of seeing the bigger picture...
Just a thought mind
To be fair, if you read past cm1179's tabloid like headline and just read the article Cameron isn't really saying teachers should make kids stand up. It was more a general comment on school discipline success.
Obviously the school you work in may be different but the schools in the area I am in have, in the last few years, started going back to a more disciplined philosophy. Strict uniform codes, less tolerant discipline procedures etc. The school I visited this week was run along similar lines and despite being in a pretty rough area with an intake that has a fair few pupils from lower socio economic groups it is judged "Outstanding" by Ofstead and is doing quite well results wise.
What seems to be important is allowing schools to do what is best for their school. So if asking pupils to stand works for that school then great, if it doesn't then thats fine too.
Castiel again yoh make things up about me, throw in in sults an go off as a rambling old man i get it.
I am curuous how not standing up is disruptive. For all we know the students could be sat waiting in silence for the teacher.
I am curuous how not standing up is disruptive. For all we know the students could be sat waiting in silence for the teacher.
Totally this. Some people are using 'respect' in the same way some gun slinging gangster would... respect isn't to be confused with being controlled or fearful.
It just seems relatively obvious to me, but then it could be something to do with upbringing and also life experience. I have worked for and with people whom I have not had a huge amount of personal respect for, but I would still respect their position as project manager or subject specialist or whatever. It doesn't make me any less of a person by treating them with respect. I also treat police offers and the like with additional respect due to their position. Even as a parent I will treat teachers with a certain level of respect for their position as they are responsible for my child whilst in school.
The standing up is relatively unimportant. It is up to individual schools to enforce whatever rules, standards and gestures of respect they so choose. What is important is that the pupils offer teachers the respect that their position as educators deserve. Like it or not a teacher is in a position of authority over the pupil when they are in school.
I agree that respect isn't to be confused with being controlled or feared, but disagree that all respect should be earned. That, I would suggest, is more along the lines of the gun slinging gangster. What you are effectively saying is "Don't respect someone until they have done something to earn it". Which seems silly to me, surely the attitude should be "Don't disrespect someone until they have done something to earn it."?
Even then certain positions deserve respect even if you do not like the person in question.
Standing up and paying respect to someone you don't particularly care for is only going to come about via force... We would merely be teaching kids to obey. But hey, I guess it would be nice should the school have a guest or something like...
Man of Honour
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Which older generation?
Who exactly has ruined your chances because me and Castiel certainly haven't?
Have your teachers ruined your your chances?
Actually your teachers are doing exactly the opposite by trying to educate you so show them some respect.
You are blaming all adults for the faults of a few in power which is quite a silly thing to do.
How do you teach a child to say please and thank you? Do you think adults that say please and thank you are being forced to do so?
Indeed, hence surely it is a decent thing to teach kids?
How is standing up going to instil respect? Half the kids won't even know why they are doing it. These basic principles are supposed to be taught by parents and reinforced by school. You can't expect kids to show respect when a lot of parents don't these days! Of course there are many that bring their children well, but some leave a lot to be desired.
I agree with you 100%. I think teachers and parents especially should be looked up to and respected no matter what. Respect shouldn't be "earned" in every case. Our parents don't have to earn our respect do they?
Personally I think Cameron is bang on with his statement but he has a lot of stuff missing.
Kids get away with far too much these days which is why they don't respect adults. Most of this happens in school because over the past 10-20 years, a lot of authority has been taken away from teachers in general.
I'm not some old fart either, I'm 21. I saw it in my school on numerous occasions where the teachers simply couldn't control the kids and it causes serious problems later on.
People say this a lot, but it's damn true. When my Dad was a kid, they feared their teachers but they also respected them greatly because the teachers had the ability to control the kids. I'm not saying that nowadays that doesn't happen - but it is less frequent and there are a lot of inexperienced teachers around. I had some great teachers and I respected immensely.
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Me too... but the weird thing was, at the same time, some teachers could control the class without a problem. Funny that...