Guild Wars 2

[jakspyder]

The point is that at the first sign of any debate or real in-depth discussion of the game at hand, you guys all start whining like a bunch of nancies. I return again to my question: what do you want to discuss here if there can be no speculation about the game's design? Just an RSS feed of GW2 news? There are plenty of dedicated websites for that. I'm confused.

I think the point is, that it begins as discussion but descends into arguing about each others experience and skill and trying to undermine your oppositions argument by pointing out his/her personal failings rather than mechanics of each game. Obviously you are not solely guilty in this respect, it takes at least 2. But this is what people are finding annoying and tedious. We don't want to know how good you are at wow or how bad Bhavv is at wow. We want to discuss the pros and cons of guildwars. Not the pros and cons of Bhavv and InKursion.

 

[jakspyder]

Snip...

Not to mention it lets those incompetent players at least contribute SOMETHING rather than just being wrong and dragging you all down with him

 

[Xordium]

The way I'm seeing it is that it's not like WoW where there's an auto attack and your skills, it's that your "1" is an autoattack type skill that's spammable. It means that casters don't rely on casting spells for *all* their DPS. It means that they can use their actual skills when they're needed instead of spamming them for max DPS.

That fits in with the no tanks/healers thing too, mobs will need a lot more control instead of everyone just standing there doing one job. Everyone's going to need to pitch in to help each other tank hopefully.

Yep that's not too far from it and don't forget the combinations can really make difference. It is a very active game if you get what I mean you can't just remember rotations get some muscle memory and go on autopilot.

 

[InKursion]

I think you'll find the person bringing it down to the personal level and imputing people's skill-level in the discussion is bhavv. I don't care about WOW discussion either. Go back 2 pages: I mentioned it hoping that GW2 would retain a sense of community. The rest of the digression is not my responsibility. I posted three times - thrice - asking to get off the epeen-driven tangent.

Oh and what was that mention of an ignore feature? I'd like to use it.

 

[ThomBassmonkey]

The point is that at the first sign of any debate or real in-depth discussion of the game at hand, you guys all start whining like a bunch of nancies. I return again to my question: what do you want to discuss here if there can be no speculation about the game's design? Just an RSS feed of GW2 news? There are plenty of dedicated websites for that. I'm confused.

In most MMOs you have healers, tanks and DPS.

The healers stand there and heal, moving out of the stuff when needed, doing extra healing when needed.

The tanks stand there and tank, moving out of the stuff when needed, picking up other mobs when needed.

The DPS stand there and DPS, moving out of the stuff when needed, ocasionally doing a bit of utility if needed (CC, misdirects etc).

Obviously that's simplified, there might be a fight where a DPS needs to kite or a healer needs to pick up a buff etc but generally that's MMO mechanics.

In GW2 you are responsible for yourself. If you die, it's your own fault. There's so much more going on with relation to positioning. If you watch the Yogscast doing the dungeon that was in a media beta a while back, they die LOTS from stuff like standing still for more than 2 or 3 seconds (I know they're not amazing gamers, but the rate they lose hp when they mess up is mad). There's constant damage coming from all over the place that you are responsible for avoiding.

In most MMOs you have a lot of skills and you need to keep your eye on them and unless there's a big pool of lava at your feet, you don't have to move. In GW2 it looks like there's so much going on that you need to constantly be watching your surroundings and having a lot of skills to keep an eye on would be a hindrance to that.

 

[Xordium]

In most MMOs you have a lot of skills and you need to keep your eye on them and unless there's a big pool of lava at your feet, you don't have to move. In GW2 it looks like there's so much going on that you need to constantly be watching your surroundings and having a lot of skills to keep an eye on would be a hindrance to that.

Yep, that's it.

 

[InKursion]

I'm aware of all the above mechanics and changes in GW2 design. I imagine everyone is, it's on the website. The point was that going down to a 5-man encounter size can negatively limit the perceived 'epicness' of raiding. There are pros and cons to it - not just the rapturous applause that people here seem more keen to provide.

 

[ThomBassmonkey]

We should probably stop going on about Bhavv now. He's welcome to his opinions even if others don't agree with them.

GW2 is an MMO. The biggest MMO out there is WoW and most modern MMOs follow it's (very succesful) formula so it makes sense to compare an MMO we're excited about to the leading MMO that most others are based on. Just because GW2 is being compared to it (by anyone) doesn't mean that it has to be better or worse.

 

[jakspyder]

I think you'll find the person bringing it down to the personal level and imputing people's skill-level in the discussion is bhavv. I don't care about WOW discussion either. Go back 2 pages: I mentioned it hoping that GW2 would retain a sense of community. The rest of the digression is not my responsibility. I posted three times - thrice - asking to get off the epeen-driven tangent.

Oh and what was that mention of an ignore feature? I'd like to use it.

I'll admit I didn't read ALL the arguing and note everyone taking part, I'm certainly not singling YOU personally as the sole perpetrator of it either, It just seems that way because I posted in response to you. What I was trying to say is that in fact discussion about GuildWars 2 IS allowed and encouraged. Just not an argument between several members disguised as a discussion.

 

[bhavv]

I think you'll find the person bringing it down to the personal level and imputing people's skill-level in the discussion is bhavv. I don't care about WOW discussion either. Go back 2 pages: I mentioned it hoping that GW2 would retain a sense of community. The rest of the digression is not my responsibility. I posted three times - thrice - asking to get off the epeen-driven tangent.

Oh and what was that mention of an ignore feature? I'd like to use it.

Im not even saying anything right now, I'm trying to stop yet you carry on posting and trying to bait me.

Why cant you just leave it and get back on topic?

'Sense of community' - Its definitely there in every single MMO on the planet including GW2, its called joining a 'guild'.

GW2 is an MMO. The biggest MMO out there is WoW and most modern MMOs follow it's (very succesful) formula so it makes sense to compare an MMO we're excited about to the leading MMO that most others are based on. Just because GW2 is being compared to it (by anyone) doesn't mean that it has to be better or worse.

Yet WoW didnt invent the formula it uses, it used the same forumulas found before it in games like Everquest and Daoc. The more a game is a clone of WoW and those other similar games, the less I like it.

The more different the game is to WoW, like GW1 / GW2 are, the more I like them. I dont understand why anyone posting in this thread feels the need to compare GW2 to WoW, they are completely different games, and the sole purpose behind GW2 is that yes, it is trying to be different to WoW and not just another typical MMO clone like WoW / Lotro / AoC / SWTOR all are.

 

[Xordium]

I'm aware of all the above mechanics and changes in GW2 design. I imagine everyone is, it's on the website. The point was that going down to a 5-man encounter size can negatively limit the perceived 'epicness' of raiding. There are pros and cons to it - not just the rapturous applause that people here seem more keen to provide.

Well I am truly sorry but Arenanet are not making and have not made the game you want. If however you want to fight in largescale battles then the server vs server stuff should be a good chance for you to prove your worth in. They are however a bit laggy at the moment.

Edit: In my opinion it feels far more epic being involved in something actively with 4 mates than spamming a rotation to max DPS output standing on the spot stationary with 40 people who take 2 hrs to form up. Each to their own though.

 

[ThomBassmonkey]

I'm aware of all the above mechanics and changes in GW2 design. I imagine everyone is, it's on the website. The point was that going down to a 5-man encounter size can negatively limit the perceived 'epicness' of raiding. There are pros and cons to it - not just the rapturous applause that people here seem more keen to provide.

Agreed with that. Going into a 40 man raid and killing a boss for the first time with 39 friends is a great feeling that GW2 obviously isn't going to have. That doesn't mean that it won't be epic though. GW1 certainly had some epic moments, they're just not epic in the same way.

Edit: I think I quoted the wrong post in the one you replied to by the way, there was a post somewhere about "will it feel like there's nothing to do with a limited skill set" or something like that that I meant to reply to.

 

[jakspyder]

I'm aware of all the above mechanics and changes in GW2 design. I imagine everyone is, it's on the website. The point was that going down to a 5-man encounter size can negatively limit the perceived 'epicness' of raiding. There are pros and cons to it - not just the rapturous applause that people here seem more keen to provide.

You have to remember though that dungeons are not raids... the game isn't grind to get to dungeons which you raid. That is applying the typical current MMO frame to guildwars, which just doesn't fit.

 

[jakspyder]

The dragon bosses and such are not in dungeons... you can fight those with 40 people... those will be the "Raids" these huge dynamic events that happen all over the world. Dungeons are not the ArenaNet version of Raids...

 

[Xordium]

The dragon bosses and such are not in dungeons... you can fight those with 40 people... those will be the "Raids" these huge dynamic events that happen all over the world. Dungeons are not the ArenaNet version of Raids...

Exactly - what is being done here is comparing apples and oranges there are some very different mechanics at play here.

 

[InKursion]

Well I am truly sorry but Arenanet are not making and have not made the game you want. If however you want to fight in largescale battles then the server vs server stuff should be a good chance for you to prove your worth in. They are however a bit laggy at the moment.

Hey, I'm hoping it'll be a game I love too - I've invested enough time and effort in watching videos and trying to generate some of that naive and childlike pre-release excitement that we all surely try to recapture from our more-favourable years of gaming. It's a magic feeling when you first get into a new game (especially an MMO) and meet with an entirely new world. I hope just as much as the next person here that GW2 will generate that special stomach-tingling feeling.

However I'm not averse to considering the positives and negatives of the game. Of course at the moment it's all speculation, but that can be healthy too, can't it? I'm getting the impression that if there's any questioning or negatively-inflected discussion here that it's going to equal in a temporary forum vacation, because for some reason people don't want to read it. I understand everyone is excited and hyped for a new game, but must we all try and maintain the pretense of a 12 year old's naive excitement? No game is perfect, after all.

 

[bhavv]

Agreed with that. Going into a 40 man raid and killing a boss for the first time with 39 friends is a great feeling that GW2 obviously isn't going to have.

Of course GW2 is going to have that! They are called dynamic events.

You simply dont have to waste time making that 40 man group yourself, such a huge improvement!

 

[InKursion]

You have to remember though that dungeons are not raids... the game isn't grind to get to dungeons which you raid. That is applying the typical current MMO frame to guildwars, which just doesn't fit.

That's a good point, yes. Certainly the attitude everyone is being encouraged to take is to just swallow Arena-Nets new pill and hope it cures all previous MMO ills. We'll see! Of course I certainly hope it does. But they are systematically breaking every rule in the existing book here! I'm sure many people are going to feel trepidation.

 

[Xordium]

Agreed with that. Going into a 40 man raid and killing a boss for the first time with 39 friends is a great feeling that GW2 obviously isn't going to have.

It will have smacking another server down along with your guild and every other guild on your server! (disclaimer: when they get the lag fixed)

 

[jakspyder]

Of course GW2 is going to have that! They are called dynamic events.

You simply dont have to waste time makingthat 40 man group yourself, such a huge improvement!

BUT the great thing is, if you want to make the group yourself and organise it, YOU CAN! Excellent! That means everyone is happy! The choice is yours! you play how you want to play, I play how I want to play and if those 2 styles are totally different? No worries the game will cater to us both. Absolutely great