President Obama Endorses Gay Marriage

RDM · 10 May 2012 at 22:26

Scougar said:
No, you subverted my logic.

If you are arguing the veracity of Adam and Eve the there isn't really much logic to subvert...

Scougar · 10 May 2012 at 22:27

estebanrey said:
Yes murder is natural.

Are you confusing the concept of morality with nature?

I was directly referencing another quote, and putting my view on it. the gentlemen suggested that homosexuality occurs in nature (which it does, although in some cases it is dominance not homosexuality), and I was counter arguing that as other animals kill deviant animals in some cases.. that is natural to. I'm not confusing anything.. you are skewing what I wrote to try and make a point of some kind.

estebanrey · 10 May 2012 at 22:28

holymonk said:
How can people try to argue that homosexuality is natural?

Because it's observable in nature maybe?

holymonk said:
You cant procreate through homosexuality

By that logic masturbation isn't natural, nor is anal sex between straight couples, nor is using contraception

Is your argument that all sexual activity should result in the birth of a child? What about straight couples who can't have children for biological reasons, is it 'unnatural' when they have sex?

holymonk said:
, it defies religion

It defies some religions, but then name me something that doesn't.

Have you ever looked at someone with lust? Then you defied Christian teaching right there and committed adultery.

holymonk said:
, why cant people just be happy with civil partnerships.

Why do you feel so precious about the word 'marriage' only being available to straight people?

holymonk said:
What is next marrying dolly the sheep?

You know people made the same kind of arguments against mixed race relationships.

Scougar · 10 May 2012 at 22:29

RDM said:
If you are arguing the veracity of Adam and Eve the there isn't really much logic to subvert...

Sorry RDM, can you be a bit clearer here with the question (if it is one?).

Are you merely pointing out that there isn't much logic to Adam and Eve OR, that me suggesting there might be more than just them defies logic? (and accuracy).

estebanrey · 10 May 2012 at 22:31

Scougar said:
I was directly referencing another quote, and putting my view on it. the gentlemen suggested that homosexuality occurs in nature (which it does, although in some cases it is dominance not homosexuality), and I was counter arguing that as other animals kill deviant animals in some cases.. that is natural to. I'm not confusing anything.. you are skewing what I wrote to try and make a point of some kind.

Yes but what does proving murder is natural achieve in the debate?

I think I know what you're doing, you're trying to skew the original argument into being 'because something is natural that makes it OK' which was never the initial claim.

Murder is a natural phenomenon but immoral
Homosexuality is a natural phenomenon but amoral

holymonk · 10 May 2012 at 22:32

estebanrey said:
Because it's observable in nature maybe?

By that logic masturbation isn't natural, nor is anal sex between straight couples, nor is using contraception

Is your argument that all sexual activity should result in the birth of a child? What about straight couples who can't have children for biological reasons, is it 'unnatural' when they have sex?

It defies some religions, but then name me something that doesn't.

Have you ever looked at someone with lust? Then you defied Christian teaching right there and committed adultery.

Why do you feel so precious about the word 'marriage' only being available to straight people?

You know people made the same kind of arguments against mixed race relationships.

Stop spouting semantics.

RDM · 10 May 2012 at 22:33

Scougar said:
Sorry RDM, can you be a bit clearer here with the question (if it is one?).

Are you merely pointing out that there isn't much logic to Adam and Eve OR, that me suggesting there might be more than just them defies logic? (and accuracy).

There is no logic to Adam and Eve. Why is that particular creation myth with absolutely no proof any more logical than an other creation myth?

Scougar · 10 May 2012 at 22:33

estebanrey said:
Yes but what does proving murder is natural achieve in the debate?

I think I know what you're doing, you're trying to skew the original argument into being 'because something is natural that makes it OK' which was never the initial claim.

Murder is a natural phenomenon but immoral
Homosexuality is a natural phenomenon but amoral

What the hell are you on? Sat here laughing.

I said kill not murder. An animal killing another animal isn't murder, murder is a human concept.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth lol.

estebanrey · 10 May 2012 at 22:35

Scougar said:
What the hell are you on? Sat here laughing.

I said kill not murder. An animal killing another animal isn't murder, murder is a human concept.

OK so killing is natural, please let us know what that proves or why it is relevant?

estebanrey · 10 May 2012 at 22:35

holymonk said:
Stop spouting semantics.

There was no semantics argument in my response :confused:

Scougar · 10 May 2012 at 22:36

RDM said:
There is no logic to Adam and Eve. Why is that particular creation myth with absolutely no proof any more logical than an other creation myth?

I don't think that was really under discussion to be honest? I wasn't comparing one 'myth' against another 'myth', I was discussing the what was being talked about which was Eden + Adam and Eve.

At no point have I said that YOU MUST BELIEVE, lol ;-)

Frankly I don't even know why this is focussing on the bible/christianity as a lot of other religions don't agree with homosexuality either, but that is sidestepped. Which brings us back to.. so far of topic it's stupid.

Woden · 10 May 2012 at 22:38

holymonk said:
How can people try to argue that homosexuality is natural?

You cant procreate through homosexuality, it defies religion, why cant people just be happy with civil partnerships.

What is next marrying dolly the sheep?

So sterile people should be banned from marriage too? :rolleyes:

Defies religion? Don't make me laugh. Eating meat on a Friday defies religion, being t-total defies religion, working on a Sunday (or is it Saturday hmm?) defies religion, touching your wife when she is on her period defies religion, sex outside of marriage defies religion, wearing mixed threads defies religion, eating pork defies religion, contraception defies religion (including pulling out, Onan was killed by god for this), wearing gold defies religion … this list goes on, its ridiculus.

Scougar · 10 May 2012 at 22:39

estebanrey said:
OK so killing is natural, please let us know what that proves or why it is relevant?

Not proving anything.. you are going off on a troll tangent... I'm merely following you.

RDM · 10 May 2012 at 22:39

Scougar said:
I don't think that was really under discussion to be honest? I wasn't comparing one 'myth' against another 'myth', I was discussing the what was being talked about which was Eden + Adam and Eve.

At no point have I said that YOU MUST BELIEVE, lol Frankly I don't even know why this is focussing on the bible/christianity as a lot of other religions don't agree with homosexuality either, but that is sidestepped. Which brings us back to.. so far of topic it's stupid.

Then maybe those opposed to homosexuality should stop bringing up Adam and Eve?

Scougar · 10 May 2012 at 22:41

RDM said:
Then maybe those opposed to homosexuality should stop bringing up Adam and Eve?

Totally agree. Didn't it come from the quip '...Adam and Steve', and someone didn't realise it's a common thing and it went off-topic (not that it was 'on' at this point?)

estebanrey · 10 May 2012 at 22:42

Scougar said:
Not proving anything.. you are going off on a troll tangent... I'm merely following you.

So are you admitting that entire post about animals killing other animals was completely irrelevant?

If so, why waste your time posting it?

Scougar · 10 May 2012 at 22:48

estebanrey said:
So are you admitting that entire post about animals killing other animals was completely irrelevant?

If so, why waste your time posting it?

It was relevant as a counter argument to the quote I used.

estebanrey · 10 May 2012 at 22:49

Scougar said:
It was relevant as a counter argument to the poster.

But as I've shown it wasn't.

RDM · 10 May 2012 at 22:50

Scougar said:
It was relevant as a counter argument to the quote I used.

You seem to want to have your cake and eat it. Complain about off topic remarks whilst using off topic remarks!

holymonk · 10 May 2012 at 22:52

Scougar said:
Totally agree. Didn't it come from the quip '...Adam and Steve', and someone didn't realise it's a common thing and it went off-topic (not that it was 'on' at this point?)

Its about marriage, gays shouldnt be allowed to marry, especially anything religious