The extraction of a suspects mobile phone data

[TW]Fox;21944997 said:
If this is a new thing that they didn't do before, then I'm with you. But it seems to just be a more efficient way of doing something they've always done? The end result seems to be not a new thing at all?
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It wasn't done before. When I was arrested and had my mobile removed in 2006 they kept my phone as they couldn't retina the data. I didn't get my phone back for nearly 4 months until they decided they didn't need it for charges.

I would have preferred this system where they downloaded all my phone porn and gave me it back straight away ;)
 
Sin_Chase said:
There is no evidence of this though. One is also assuming there will not be a vigorous, time consuming and paperwork filling process behind submitting a phone to such a machine, no matter how quick or easy the actual extraction is.
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The misuse of anti-terror legislation on a massive scale leads me to disagree. The police actually used the "suspicion" a ridiculous number of times in London alone. It was used to basically search or confiscate property at will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Act_2000#Section_44
 
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Rroff said:
Hmm interesting one...

I keep a (secure) backup on my phone of the source code/data for some of the programs I'm developing which is technically my intellectual property which they would normally need a warrant to sieze if it was kept on a server not sure how this would stand in this case.
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I'm guessing here but I would imagine this could also easily apply to laptops and tablets, or if it doesn't, will do in about 12 months.
 
[TW]Fox;21945279 said:
Really? The BBC Article seems to suggest it was?
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Yeah that was what I was told when I couldn't get it back. If they required anything on it for charges they would have to keep it. When they didn't need it for charges my phone was returned to me, almost 4 months later.

As I say this was in 2006 and things could well have changed :)

It was annoying because I couldn't even use the number or have my sim to reply to anyone trying to contact me on my mobile :D
 
Rroff said:
Hmm interesting one...

I keep a (secure) backup on my phone of the source code/data for some of the programs I'm developing which is technically my intellectual property which they would normally need a warrant to sieze (even if it is just copying it off) if it was kept on a server not sure how this would stand in this case.
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An interesting point but is copying seizing?
 
hmm, I suspect that, like the NDNAD, the retention of the data will be in contravention of the ECHR but will be allowed anyway. Funny how our lot choose only to ignore Euro laws that make us poorer or imply that we will commit a recordable offence at some point in our lives.
 
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anyon said:
The misuse of anti-terror legislation on a massive scale leads me to disagree. The police actually used the "suspicion" a ridiculous number of times in London alone. It was used to basically search or confiscate property at will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Act_2000#Section_44
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Yep... if the police were fishing in random stop and searches then I have every faith that they will abuse the ability to instantly check mobile phones.
 
[TW]Fox;21945205 said:
I agree - but this already happens so is a seperate problem rather than about the subject of the article.

The only change is the method - not the end result or what happens with the data. Thats nothing new.
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Its not far fetched to assume that it will happen more frequently now considering it is much quicker to do. Its also not far fetched to assume it will be abused just like how anti-terror stop and searches are.

Sin_Chase said:
You think the Police want to waste the time or fill in paperwork on random pulls in the street? Half a story being given by you I think.
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Guess you dont know the police that well then. Feel sorry for the person who gets stopped/pulled by a cop thats got quotas to fill or ones that are on a power trip.
 
Sin_Chase said:
DNS, hardware wear leveling, external factors that weaken your encryption methods. Plenty of reading material available online about this kind of stuff.
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Do you have any evidence that a hidden OS could be detected without data leakage?
The only whitepapers on truecrypt I have seen said that the only way of knowing is from leakage from programs. I don't think it's actually possible to tell if a hidden layer exists apart from data leakage.
 
Sin_Chase said:
You sound like the type who gets pulled in because you have a problem with authority and rather answering a simple question there and then to absolve you of any problems you 'exercise your rights' to remain silent or otherwise.

You think the Police want to waste the time or fill in paperwork on random pulls in the street? Half a story being given by you I think.
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Attitudes like the above annoy me, they are usually said by people who live in quiet little villages or well off suburbs where naturally there is very little crime and as a consequence very little harassment of the general public by police playing a game of percentages.

A lot of people also want to believe in this romantic ideal of a policeman who only cares about justice and catching the 'bad guys' like Nick Berry in Heartbeat.
 
The system is in place to take te pressure from the forensic labs. We use the akeso system and it works well. We have to have reasonable grounds to suspect that the phone has been used on some relation to the offence committed. Not everyone is trained in using it and is all logged and scrutinised. This is for service police civil police may be slightly different but we mirror there policy so I doubt it.
 
Craterloads said:
Guess you dont know the police that well then. Feel sorry for the person who gets stopped/pulled by a cop thats got quotas to fill or ones that are on a power trip.
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The police officers on here have repeatedly stated they do not have such a thing as quotas. Is there any reason to suggest they are lying?
 
RomanNose said:
Do you have any evidence that a hidden OS could be detected without data leakage?
The only whitepapers on truecrypt I have seen said that the only way of knowing is from leakage from programs. I don't think it's actually possible to tell if a hidden layer exists apart from data leakage.
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Hardware wear leveling can reveal the presence of something being accessed on a disc far more frequently than other parts, hence the advice to use 'fake' partitions as much as your hidden ones to mask them at a hardware level.
 
RDM said:
The police officers on here have repeatedly stated they do not have such a thing as quotas. Is there any reason to suggest they are lying?
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Police chiefs have admitted setting compulsory targets for handing out speeding tickets.
Officers are being forced to meet quotas for minor speeding offences, seatbelt violations and invalid tax discs.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-47442/Police-told-meet-quotas-motorist-fines.html

Hows that for you?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...morale-is-being-hit-by-quotas-91466-28224744/

Police officers in Cardiff city centre have been threatened with disciplinary action if they do not meet monthly crime quotas, according to a police insider.

An employee of South Wales Police, who did not want to be named, told the Echo officers at Cardiff Central Police Station were under pressure to meet targets.
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Sin_Chase said:
An interesting point but is copying seizing?
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Well I'm not quite sure where I would potentially stand - if they suspected a crime was in play they'd need a warrant/court order to come into where I work and copy data afaik even if they weren't siezing the hardware, being IP rather than just a list of names/numbers I'm not sure what implications that has if any in regards to taking a copy of it.
 
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