Victory!!! Pasty tax: U-turn 'a shambles' says Labour

[aardvark]

This reminds me of the whole carrier thing. Conservatives thought they had a better idea (traps), turns out it wasn't, so decided to revert back to the original idea.

cue labour 'THIS IS A SHAMBLES'

As someone said earlier, I would rather a government that changes the plan according to the circumstances, than a government which doggedly sticks to a poor plan.

i agree - this is what governments should do.

labour would have just continued with a stupid idea and spent billions trying to implement it ala id cards etc.

 

[mcwildcard]

So a u-turn is a shambles, yet carrying on with it was also a shambles.
The logic of the opposition never fails to astound me.

I personally think it's commendable that the govt is willing to accept when it's made a mistake, and ditch an ill-conceived policy.
That said, this is beginning to happen much too frequently, which strongly indicates that the policies are not being thought through adequately before pressing on with them.

 

[ubersonic]

So a u-turn is a shambles, yet carrying on with it was also a shambles.
The logic of the opposition never fails to astound me.

To be fair Labour are the experts on shambles.

 

[doodah]

Did Labour forget their utterly stupid decision to castrate the TA's training budget and the u-turn that followed?

 

[The Halk]

That said, this is beginning to happen much too frequently, which strongly indicates that the policies are not being thought through adequately before pressing on with them.

It's been happening for a while - poorly thought out populist policies, with no rationality.

 

[Zefan]

it was another 'poor' tax though and rightly ridiculed. you need to stop being a blue sheep. both parties have good and bad ideas and anyone that wholly rejects either party is an idiot. both parties have done good things and bad over the times (liberals have done some excellent stuff if you look back too).

you seem to say that as if the tories werent slating labour at every turn. welcome to politics (also known as childish dicks squabbling and calling names)

I'm not going to reply to any of your actual points because I'm pretty annoyed at how you've somehow read between the lines to something that simply isn't there. You're massively putting words in my mouth, making so many assumptions about me. Thanks for that dude

 

[DJMK4]

Hmmm, what type of pasty shall I eat

 

[Vampyre]

I'm all for tax simplification but how they thought this could work I've no idea...

Unfortunately, it does mean that the lost pasty revenue will now have to be raised elsewhere.

 

[estebanrey]

it was another 'poor' tax though and rightly ridiculed.

Do 'the poor' only eat heated pastry items? Isn't Fish & Chips or a Burger King 'poor food' as well? I didn't see Labour scrapping VAT on those when they were in power.

Why single out pasties and ignore the tons of other junk food which is taxed and has been ever since I can remember?

And shall we mention he massive amounts of taxes placed on cigarettes, petrol and alcohol by past Labour Chancellors which effect the poor far more than the rich?

Wasn't it Labour who invented the Fuel Duty Escalator and scrapped Road Tax in favour of a tax based on emissions? Now who, out of a rich man and a poor man, is more likely to be able to afford a Toyota Prius and who's more likely to be driving a 2.0 litre 1980's Ford Escort?

Labour really have no moral grounds to stand on to critisise the introduction of taxes that hit the poor.

 

[shoes]

Labour calling someone else a shambles?

Trololololololololololol

 

[mcwildcard]

It's been happening for a while - poorly thought out populist policies, with no rationality.

Ironically, their least populist actions seem to be on the NHS reforms, which are probably the worst thought through of all.

 

[postbox]

So if I've read that right, are Gregs/pasty shops going to have to switch off all of their hot plates to not be liable for VAT?

 

[Zefan]

So if I've read that right, are Gregs/pasty shops going to have to switch off all of their hot plates to not be liable for VAT?

Not as far as I gather. They were going to have to, but not any more.

 

[postbox]

Not as far as I gather. They were going to have to, but not any more.

It's this part that made me think otherwise
"After the amendment, food such as sausage rolls or pasties sold on shelves - that is, cooling down, rather than being kept hot in a special cabinet - will not be liable for VAT."
If it was sat under a hot plate, it wouldn't really cool down, certainly not to ambient levels (the Greggs breakfast roll I had the other day was molten lava hot). Would I be charged extra for getting my Panini toasted for example?

 

[stockhausen]

Picture the scene:

A bunch of inbred Tory toffs, fresh out of Eton and Oxbridge and still wet behind their jug-handle ears are lounging about in the club after a typically leisurely liquid lunch, reminiscing about the good old days when pater could organise a peasant shoot on his estate without some jumped-up oik whinging that it really isn't right to shoot the servants. Eventually they get round to discussing how best to safeguard their way of life and their few legitimate brats' inheritance.

Gervais mentions that poor people claim not to be able to afford bouef en croute and have started eating some quaint delicacy apparently called a "patsy" or somesuch which evidently contains vegetables cooked in pastry. Why not slap a tax on that?

Algie agrees that that sounds like a wizard scheme and to celebrate a great days work calls out "Oi, garçon - another couple of magnums of bubbly, over here, sharpish".​

 

[The Halk]

Would I be charged extra for getting my Panini toasted for example?

It's always been that way - although it wasn't enforced until relatively recently. Subway had some troubles with it.

 

[Dave M]

So if I've read that right, are Gregs/pasty shops going to have to switch off all of their hot plates to not be liable for VAT?

Food is an essential and has no VAT, take-away is a luxury and has VAT.

This is all.

I haven't really paid much attention as I really don't care but this hot/cold food thing is not new. I gather from todays news that the issue was selling a freshly cooked pastry, which by definition is hot, but as they weren't heating it specifically for the customer were not charging VAT.

This clarifies just one of a million little annoyances in one of the most complex taxes there is. Is there any wonder no government dares make any serious changes to tax given the uproar over this?

 

[Dave M]

It's this part that made me think otherwise
"After the amendment, food such as sausage rolls or pasties sold on shelves - that is, cooling down, rather than being kept hot in a special cabinet - will not be liable for VAT."
If it was sat under a hot plate, it wouldn't really cool down, certainly not to ambient levels (the Greggs breakfast roll I had the other day was molten lava hot). Would I be charged extra for getting my Panini toasted for example?

I'm sure you've always been charged VAT, or at least, Greggs has always paid VAT and built it into their price structure.

 

[chriscubed]

Shame, I thought it was a good idea to unify the taxation on hot served food.

Quite fancy a pasty now though! Spec me a pasty!

 

[postbox]

There was a bit on the radio this morning which highlighted the complexity of the tax in day to day use. MP was asked would Microwaving your own pasty at a service station incur VAT? MP couldn't answer, which bodes well.