Woman refused bus travel at 3am for being 20p short on bus fare is raped... What would you have done
- Thread starter vicisthebest
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You are wrong there....If the driver had allowed the girl one without issuing a ticket and an inspector had gotten on to check the tickets, then despite any explanation from the driver to the contrary the default position would be that the Driver has defrauded the company.
He would have been removed from service, suspended and then subject to disciplinary action depending on any investigation that takes place in the interim....if he can prove that the girl was at risk then he may well not receive any disciplinary action and return to duty, but the procedures with dealing with non-issue of tickets (known as ticket irregularities) are normally enforced to the letter. In fact there are a myriad of regulations that drivers are expected to follow unless specifically instructed to the contrary either by their inspector/supervisor or the Police. Any infringement of these regulations and procedures is generally dealt with by disciplinary action, which in many companies is very regular.....so remember that next time you think the driver is a grump, remember that he is simply doing the jobs of two people and has probably been doing so, without a break for up to 5.5 hours and up to 10 driving hours a day.
Some companies have procedures for dealing with this and similar situations whereby as long as the passenger can provide some form of identification then a ticket is issued and a short form completed so that the passenger can be charged at a later date...however, we do not know whether this particular company has such procedures, and we also do not know the particular issues with that particular late night route and the incidences of ticket evasion and passenger attitudes on such a service.
We also do not know the particular instructions or experiences of that Driver and the route he is driving, youngsters trying to short change may well be a common occurrence on such a route, or the attitude of the girl in how she approached the situation....we simply do not know.
Regardless of the the personal actions of the driver or the girl or the passengers, he simply is not culpable for the subsequent rape of the woman...you could go back through all the actions of that girl during that day and attribute blame in all kinds of situations that if different would have meant that the girl was not at the precise location as that rapist.....
One person is at fault...The Rapist.
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Stupid victims, sort yourselves out.
Given the cost of a rape investigation and possible trial, I'd rather the council pay the bus company a few quid to subsidise travel.
How is the driver at any fault at all.
1) He'd have possible lost his job if he'd let her on for less money.
2) The girl had already wasted 8 minutes of his time trying to get on, so why should he let her waste more time at the cash point.
3) You cannot use hindsight to look at his decision. Who really thinks "this girl has wasted my time and asked me to risk my job, and now wants to waste more of my time getting money but I should wait because she may get raped". Nobody.
The sole blame is with the rapist. End of.
EDIT: Also if I was the driver i'd have done the same. If I was a passenger i'd have given her the 20p.
1) He'd have possible lost his job if he'd let her on for less money.
2) The girl had already wasted 8 minutes of his time trying to get on, so why should he let her waste more time at the cash point.
3) You cannot use hindsight to look at his decision. Who really thinks "this girl has wasted my time and asked me to risk my job, and now wants to waste more of my time getting money but I should wait because she may get raped". Nobody.
The sole blame is with the rapist. End of.
EDIT: Also if I was the driver i'd have done the same. If I was a passenger i'd have given her the 20p.
Soldato
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I'm sorry I refuse to believe in is particular instance he would have been removed from service and suspended even if a ticket inspector had gotten on, the driver could have just issued her a cheaper ticket, maybe I'm wrong, but unless I have proof of 'similar circumstances' where the driver is suspended due to letting on a vulnerable customer at 20p less rate then I'll find it hard to believe that the driver was acting out of fear of losing his job or disciplinary action.
And as you say, we don't know the particulars of this case on either side, maybe she was rude and drunk, maybe not, maybe the companies policy does allow drivers to take on vulnerable customers in certain circumstances, we don't know, all I can say is with the information we have to hand I disagree with the drivers choice.
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Immigrant rapes white person what a shock.
Soldato
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Hi Logan!
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Wow, and I just RTM'd my first guy - practically every post he's made has been a racist one.
Don't want to get raped? Don't get drunk and wonder around a UK city at 3am. How about some personal responsibility and common sense?
Don't be there in the first place.
Don't be there drunk.
Don't be there drunk and alone.
Don't be there drunk, alone and with insufficient bus/taxi fare having spent your money drinking.
Bad things happen in the world. It's YOUR job to avoid it. Not mine, not bus drivers, not the police, YOURS.
Obviously I would have given her the 20p if I was a passenger/driver but you shouldn't run on the assumption people will bail you out of trouble.
Don't be there in the first place.
Don't be there drunk.
Don't be there drunk and alone.
Don't be there drunk, alone and with insufficient bus/taxi fare having spent your money drinking.
Bad things happen in the world. It's YOUR job to avoid it. Not mine, not bus drivers, not the police, YOURS.
Obviously I would have given her the 20p if I was a passenger/driver but you shouldn't run on the assumption people will bail you out of trouble.
If I was a passenger, i wouldn't have given her 20p.
1) I never carry change with me
2) I'd probably be listening to music
If I was a bus driver and it was the last bus and a woman was sober, on her own and polite, I'd have just let her on TBH. IMO, it's a poor call on the drivers' part, but he isn't to blame at all.
How do bus fares work exactly? I was under the presumption it was £2.30 wherever you went, or is that just in London?
Also, about people down south being more unfriendly, somewhat true. As a whole, London is a very unfriendly place. This can be said for pretty much every city of a similar size.
On another note, It's not her fault, but the girl was being a bit careless/stupid putting herself in danger by travelling at 3AM on her own, in a secluded place.
1) I never carry change with me
2) I'd probably be listening to music
If I was a bus driver and it was the last bus and a woman was sober, on her own and polite, I'd have just let her on TBH. IMO, it's a poor call on the drivers' part, but he isn't to blame at all.
How do bus fares work exactly? I was under the presumption it was £2.30 wherever you went, or is that just in London?
Also, about people down south being more unfriendly, somewhat true. As a whole, London is a very unfriendly place. This can be said for pretty much every city of a similar size.
On another note, It's not her fault, but the girl was being a bit careless/stupid putting herself in danger by travelling at 3AM on her own, in a secluded place.
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+1 to some extent.
Presuming she was drunk, she was pretty stupid to place herself into that situation.
Rapist is still at blame overall, but the girl is stupid for putting herself into harms way
Caporegime
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Lets all live sheltered lives.
I can tell you from experience of dealing with such cases at appeal level that this happens....one specific instance (I realise this is anecdotal) a Driver had taken the money, given change and then issued the ticket, and then preceded to the next stop....the next stop was nominally about 6 minutes away, on this occasion there was no traffic so he reached the stop in 3 minutes at which point a revenue inspector alighted and checked the tickets...he questioned that the last ticket issued was actually issued at the outset and it was alleged that the driver only issued the ticket when he saw the revenue inspector at the stop in front of him. The revenue inspector then supervised the driver for the remainder of the route and removed him from service immediately upon their return...he was subsequently suspended and investigated....the then manager upheld the initial accusation and issued a final written warning and censure.....thus an appeal which I adjudicated and on the evidence of the CCTV the driver was subsequently cleared of any wrongdoing and the policies which led to this duly altered.
The point is that many bus companies, mainly the larger ones have very strict and inflexible policies that mean a driver is often actively discouraged from following their own initiative when dealing with such incidences.
But despite aany of this, the driver is simply not at fault for the actions of a rapist, regardless of whether this particular girl would have escaped being raped by getting on the bus. If she had and another girl had been raped in her stead..whose fault is that?
I'm not saying that. I am saying, if you know you're going to be travelling somewhere dodgy late at night, at least be sensible enough to make arrangements home, be that calling a cab or having enough money on you.
I'd have given her the 20p but if the situation had been different and she had no money at all I wouldn't have paid the full fare of £5 (or more than a couple of quid at most to be honest).
(No before any smartarse jumps in, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't pay £5 to stop a woman getting raped, it just describes the situation before any of that transpired).
(No before any smartarse jumps in, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't pay £5 to stop a woman getting raped, it just describes the situation before any of that transpired).
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Caporegime
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That's what happens when money and stupid company policies become more important than people.
Don't need a massive reply with an agreeing/disagreeing statement either
Must be a gift to have every moment in life plotted out
Bus fares are set by the operator and are loosely related to how far you are travelling. Any journey lasting over half an hour would almost certainly cost you more than £2.30 round here.
Not really, but I don't tend to find myself alone at 3AM without any possible notion that it may happen.
How on Earth do bus drivers keep tabs on who's got to get off where then?
