tony nicklinson - 'locked-in syndrome'
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It's spurious. Did any of you take the poll? I know I didn't. 'Commissioned by Channel 4 following a drama last week'. Oh yes, infallible evidence of the nation's whole opinion!
The poll says more about the demographics reached by Channel 4's broadcasting, more than it says about a genuine nationwide sentiment.
If they attached a question about the death penalty to a national census, then we can talk 'statistics'. Until then, you're playing a poor game to be honest.
"71% of people I asked supported the death penalty!*"
*Note: poll taken in Iran.
The poll says more about the demographics reached by Channel 4's broadcasting, more than it says about a genuine nationwide sentiment.
If they attached a question about the death penalty to a national census, then we can talk 'statistics'. Until then, you're playing a poor game to be honest.
"71% of people I asked supported the death penalty!*"
*Note: poll taken in Iran.
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Soldato
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I personally think, and I fully expect to get abuse for it, but if its acceptable for a vet to put an animal down (which has absolutely no say in if it wants to die or not), then a person with a disease, illness or disability which will make their life horrible and is not recoverable, then they should have a right to be put to sleep too.
obviously not on a whim, there should be advice from the persons doctor and some kind of tests, but if someone chooses to die, and there are medical grounds for it, then like with pets, it should be allowed.
obviously not on a whim, there should be advice from the persons doctor and some kind of tests, but if someone chooses to die, and there are medical grounds for it, then like with pets, it should be allowed.
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Whilst not infallible, I think they're providing more reliable evidence than you are.
Not really. One poll states the favour is 51%. The other poll states 40-50% want it back. That's not an overwhelming majority - and again, my point about the sort of people that are inclined to react to these snap-polls still stands. The evidence they provide is not indicative of the whole country, and even then, it's hardly a giant overwhelming cry for the death penalty to be brought back. Using snap polls and polls taken after extreme cases (e.g. child abduction and murder) is just seizing upon public outrage and sensationalism. If you asked every household on a national census whether or not they wanted the death penalty, there's no way you'd get the same results as these polls (the main one which was taken after a Channel 4 drama about the death penalty - how sensible).
Quite strange isn't it that we show more compassion towards animals.
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You're mentioning possible methodological errors in the polls but you're not exactly offering up evidence to the contrary.
Also this is the sort of funny thing I'm talking about
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...vour-of-reintroducing-capital-punishment.html
99% of people want capital punishment back... according to the Sun.
Views on this matter are heavily stratified by class and education. Even the main MORI poll being linked states the same trend: lower-class, non-University educated people cry for the death penalty; upper-class, educated people tend to have a more liberal and tolerant outlook. Plus, according to the Sun poll, the biggest complaint about the death penalty seems to be poor people moaning about tax money going on prisons. How reliable.
Are you stupid? I just said the only way to get a sound method is to ask everyone on a census across an equal cross-section of society. In a proper document by the government - not some newspaper or TV poll following a sensational story or emotional programme. That's hardly controversial reasoning, is it?
Do you want me to nip out now and get started on the national census? To satisfy my reason here in this thread? Come on...
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You do realise there are more lower educated people than vice versa right? Also, you still haven't provided any evidence to support your argument.
Quoting a channel 4 poll is a shallow excuse for 'evidence'. The fact I haven't done a national poll myself doesn't mean I can't point out this obvious critique. Your style of argumentation is pretty moronic: "they've presented (flawed) evidence so therefore you have to provide better evidence before the flaws in the original evidence can be legitimated". No, you can infer the flaws through logic and reasonable analysis. I don't have to counter-present evidence to invalidate the first. It's not a lab experiment.
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Wind you neck in.
Census isn't the only way to get evidence, indeed it may not even be the best due to having a single wording of the question. This issue is one that is well researched and polled yet you are only stating an opinion with little or no evidence to back it up. If you want people to take your argument seriously, debate properly. I'm sure you can find some polls which have a reasonable methodology and wording of the question to support your position, but I'm not going to do your work for you.
But not allowing it is to leave people in constant pain, humiliation and torture with zero chance of happiness to me leaving someone in that state is just pure evil. How can you justify leaving someone in that state?
Soldato
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Must be such a difficult life to live in his situation and many people seem to be in favour of assisted suicide but just wondering what are peoples thoughts if you were in the position as a doctor or clinician at the point of giving the lethal injection. Could you be the person responsible for ending lives on a regular basis? My position is that yes part of life is the right to die with dignity but I for one would opt out or object to the actual action of giving the said person the final lethal dose. Don't how many of you are aware of something called "Doctrine of Double Effect" but again I'm always slightly uncomfortable with this practice amongst clinicians.
Yes but higher educated people with more tolerant, enlightened liberal views are the ones wielding power. The judiciary and legislative that enact these laws are highly-educated people that actually put thought into the laws, as opposed to the blood-hungry mob that come knocking whenever there's a Milly or Fritzl case in the news. Thank God our modern democracy is upheld by informed, enlightened principles, and not according to the whims of a mass that still reacts to scandal in the same way the Roman proles would have done 2000 years ago. For every 100 Dave the white-van man answering Sun and Channel 4 polls, there's 1 judge with an education and sense of humanity.
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one thing that does puzzle me, and please tell me what im missing, is, just because it is made legal, doesn't mean everyone that gets ill will commit suicide.
I will explain my confusion a little.
firstly, if it was made legal, would you not have to go to a designated place, ie hospital, and checks be done to prove it was for a solid reason. meaning I couldn't just wake up one day and go 'meh, im too lazy to work, cant afford to live without work, might as well book myself in for a suicide today.'
the second part of my confusion is this, and please bare with me, just because its legal, does not mean when you get ill you HAVE to be put down. just like alcohol is legal but I am not forced to drink it, smoking is legal, but im not forced to smoke......just because you CAN do it, does not mean you HAVE to do it. so all the religious people that don't agree don't have to partake in it, and they can watch their loved ones suffer just like they do now.
I will explain my confusion a little.
firstly, if it was made legal, would you not have to go to a designated place, ie hospital, and checks be done to prove it was for a solid reason. meaning I couldn't just wake up one day and go 'meh, im too lazy to work, cant afford to live without work, might as well book myself in for a suicide today.'
the second part of my confusion is this, and please bare with me, just because its legal, does not mean when you get ill you HAVE to be put down. just like alcohol is legal but I am not forced to drink it, smoking is legal, but im not forced to smoke......just because you CAN do it, does not mean you HAVE to do it. so all the religious people that don't agree don't have to partake in it, and they can watch their loved ones suffer just like they do now.
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That's fine until there is enough popular support for a referendum. That's even assuming that the death penalty isn't supported by educated people which you again, haven't provided any evidence for yet.
It's just rational common sense. The law is not a perfect mechanism. The legal process is not infallible. Juries are not reliable and can be swung in a court-room by any number of things (not to mention personal prejudices and expectations). Anyone that is educated on the subject and thinks it through reasonably will know that the death penalty is a problematic judicial concept. There's too much of a gray area in these things. Plus the state no longer wants to sponsor or mandate killing its own citizens. It's seen as barbaric by most liberal standards in the 21st century. Our state will never go back to that legal state - it'll be seen as a barbarism and a regression.
I very much doubt there will ever be a referendum on the death penalty. Even the indignant Sun polls that are conducted after a terrible event make no difference. I refer you back to the Moors murders and the calls for a referendum, literally within weeks of the death penalty first being abolished. It did nothing. The public is a fickle mass; seeming 'huge support' for the death penalty one week, perhaps following a high-profile child abuse case, will dissipate and become ambiguous the next.
I very much doubt there will ever be a referendum on the death penalty. Even the indignant Sun polls that are conducted after a terrible event make no difference. I refer you back to the Moors murders and the calls for a referendum, literally within weeks of the death penalty first being abolished. It did nothing. The public is a fickle mass; seeming 'huge support' for the death penalty one week, perhaps following a high-profile child abuse case, will dissipate and become ambiguous the next.
If you look at the e-petition's which were created the one voting to keep the ban on the death penalty actually had more votes (but got no media attention).
Petition to retain the ban on Capital Punishment 33,453 04/02/2012
Restore Capital Punishment 26,349 04/02/2012
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/search?order=desc&q=death&sort=count&state=closed
Petition to retain the ban on Capital Punishment 33,453 04/02/2012
Restore Capital Punishment 26,349 04/02/2012
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/search?order=desc&q=death&sort=count&state=closed
Soldato
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if you had a dog that was in serious pain and didnt enjoy life any more, would you put it down or just let it suffer for a few more years in a living hell?
personally if i was like the guy in the link i wouldnt want to be here any more. no quality of life.
you wouldnt be killing him. he cant feed himself or get drinks. we are keeping him alive artificially. left on his own he would die.
i dont mind religion but when the push their mumbo jumbo down people's throats and make society conform to their beliefs its gone too far. oh well. hopefully in the future religion will die out and we will all be much happier.