British Man, 21, Faces Death in UAE

AshD93 said:
Executing people is not stupid. If someone raped your wife or girlfriend, I'm pretty sure you would want the same thing.

Why let them live and give them the opportunity to re offend which is usually what happens. Once that gets the fear into people, no-one will commit crimes and the world will be a better place.

As said, one more dealer of the streets.
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I find your sig pretty ironic.
 
amigafan2003 said:
+1




I'd happily see users of all three drugs severly punished. Also, whilst we're on it, smoking should be banned and anyone drunk and disorderly/incapable should have to do 100 hrs community service.
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scary. so something with zero intrinsic harm should be severely dealt with.

so, alcohol is ok as its legal and dangerous but pot is bad because its illegal and harmless? odd logic.
 
AshD93 said:
Executing people is not stupid. If someone raped your wife or girlfriend, I'm pretty sure you would want the same thing.

Why let them live and give them the opportunity to re offend which is usually what happens. Once that gets the fear into people, no-one will commit crimes and the world will be a better place.

As said, one more dealer of the streets.
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raping a GF is different from selling some a bit of weed to them.

controlling people with fear always leaves everyone much happier in society.

the 1930s called and wants you back. apparently a lovely new movement for people like you is starting in germany. it couldnt possibly go wrong.... :rolleyes:
 
realBabelfish said:
scary. so something with zero intrinsic harm should be severely dealt with.

so, alcohol is ok as its legal and dangerous but pot is bad because its illegal and harmless? odd logic.
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Pot is not harmless.

I assume you're a user and you're just deluding yourself?
 
Moses said:
Yes, but that doesn't mean their argument would be factually correct. Look at crime levels in Scandinavia... wow, they must have the death penalty, or something... nope!
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Again Scandinavia has a totally different demographic and a highly evolved criminal justice system and enforcement....many of the countries we are talking about do not have such a system or are slowly building such as system.....this includes the cultural issues of Tribal and Regional enforcement, nationwide policing, nationwide criminal and legal systems and representation and so on....it is not so easy to simply express "our way is the only way" objectively....that doesn't mean that the death penalty is right or that the system should not be improved....only that you cannot express one set of values equally against two vastly different criteria.


Moses said:
I'd look at the example of somewhere like Bosnia and Herzegovina... they now have crime levels below that of Sweden! How did they transition from the proverbial hitting the fan, to a state with low crime levels? Enacting the death penalty for all sorts of crimes/cracking down super hard/etc? Nope!
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Actually Bosnia is a good example of what I am talking about, as the country went through a massive violent upheaval and the crime levels in Bosnia will reflect the effect that has on the public psyche, however the crime rates are climbing as those who experienced the atrocities directly are getting older and the old ethnic rivalries begin to resurface in the young, not to mention the growth of the Bosnian Mafia and it's connection to the ruling classes and authorities there is a lot of petty and property crime in Bosnia and the further into the rural regions you go the less provision there is on State Enforcement.

Also you need to be aware that Crime reporting is not exactly accurate in Bosnia....Organised Crime is responsible for much of the murders and serious criminality and they are generally free from prosecution due to endemic corruption and lawlessness.

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=9168

so not the best example you could have used.
 
Really can't see the problem

Taking the story as true.. Which is all you can do

He chose to go there.. Should have known the laws
He chose to sell drugs... As above
He got caught

It's almost the same as saying that if country x has no laws on murder let's say and the person comes over to UK and murders, he can get off cause its ok in his country

It's a harsh law yes, ott for our standards yes, but if you can book a flight, book somewhere to stay etc you are intelligent enough to know the law

He gambled and lost.. That's my take.

And for those saying its over 260 £, i highly doubt a first time dealer would be making his first sale in UAE, i wonder what people would say if he had made 100000k previously? A bit less leniency I expect

Unfortunate? Yes. Correct punishment? No by our standards.. Should he get off? Not of the story is true. It's gets to the point of where you draw the line then
 
Collider said:
I tend to think you can get into a morality battle with a state like the UAE and stand a good chance on coming out ahead on points.

Here is someone who spent two months in jail (she was cleared) as she had been given a codeine injection for a bad back possession in UAE includes having drugs in your bloodstream.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/4200952.stm

So far, so not very moral.
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Thats chuffing ridiculous isnt it, i wonder, is ibuprofen or paracetamol classed as a banned substance over there?
 
Moses said:
Yes, but I'm not saying directly transpose our entire system... I'm just saying that things like the death penalty are unnecessary and achieves nothing. I understand all these issues are deeply complex, but the idea that the death penalty achieves anything laudable is just false.
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I do not support the death penalty, but I disagree with your idea that becasue as crime is seen as petty in one society that automatically qualifies it as such in another......



Moses said:
It still has relatively low levels of crime, and is a good example of transitioning from war to a relatively good position. An example which demonstrates that Somalia doesn't need to have ridiculous harsh sentences to try and get to a relatively good position.
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It really doesn't....it has an arguable low level of reported violent crimes, which given that it is only the main urban centres such as Sarajevo that have any significant State Enforcement of the Law and even there the majority is as a result of Organised Crime which is relatively untouched by the legal system and as there are two competing political systems in place, criminals only have to cross from one to the other to escape prosecution and therefore the crime statistics are practically meaningless, you cannot objectively compare it to Somalia or Sweden at each end of the scale. and baring in mind that it was not until 2001 that Bosnia-Herzegovina abolished the death penalty and that the EHCR holds a third of the seats on their Supreme Court.

That also doesn't touch on the point that although Bosnia Herzegovina went through a period of violent civil upheaval, it still had a very evolved and modern legal and social system on which to build on, is under international supervision and support. Something that many of the countries we have can point to, do not, such as Somalia...which is effectively entirely Lawless.....something that was also the case in much of the Middle East after the dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire.

Anyway, like I said, I do not agree with a death penalty as I think it amounts to revenge rather than justice....however I also recognise that becasue one society doesn't recognise a crime as serious, that doesn't mean that a different society with different problems and enforcement issues will necessarily be in a position to apply the same level of consideration to each specific example.
 
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Moses said:
Huh? No one's saying drug offences aren't serious (well, most aren't... obviously OcUK's vocal pro-weed crowd say so)... it's just that the death penalties ridiculous. I'd have no big problem with the person in the OP having a custodial sentence, really (assuming it wasn't a life sentence, or something of that ilk!)
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If you look back I have already said much the same thing in relation to this specific offence....however I am disagreeing with your assertion that we can judge different cultures and societies in an absolute rather than relative way......while there are basic human rights that each of us should be entitled to, it doesn't follow that the each society is required to define their relative criminal issues in a similar absolute way.

I think we need to be objective here and point out the that the chap did break a law and he knew what he was doing, he knew what the potential repercussions would be...so he must take responsibility for that....does that mean we cannot question the overriding severity of the sentencing? off course not, but it doesn't give us, as a society, the right to override their laws or decide how they apply the severity of sentence to each crime......all we can do is appeal to the sense of mercy and appeal for his release into the UK's custody to serve an agreed sentence or have the death penalty commuted in favour of a custodial sentence.

Moses said:
The point isn't that Bosnia's some perfect state - it's obviously not, it obviously still has lots of problems (as one would expect, given their recent history). The point is that somewhere like Somalia could make a similar transition, by doing similar things (not resorting to the death penalty, for example). Bosnia still needs time, and Somalia would take lots of time... but the death penalty wouldn't achieve anything, in terms of quickening that progress (amongst other things).
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However, Bosnia-Herzegovina's progress with restoring civilian authority and judicial order was indeed underpinned by the death penalty, especially for crimes relating to ethnic atrocities and the criminality relating to various post-war fallout. It is only relatively recently that the death penalty has been abolished and as I said partly due to the set up of the The Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina and their desire for full EU membership.

I am not saying that it had any specific impact of the speed or efficacy of restoring civilian authority, however you cannot objectively point to Bosnia-Herzegovina as an example to support your view, as it effectively supports the converse depending on how you present it.
 
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