Want to know where all the money went?

[Basher]

The demand is the first step, a business can't make any money without demand.

Job's can be created (by the state for one example) to exploit that demand - the only thing that's required is the demand.

You also need to differentiate between A business & the current business.

If laws are put into place which causes businesses to go bust, new ones will crop up & take advantage of the gap left in the market.

I don't think the tax-payer should be forced to subsidise businesses which don't make enough money to pay the staff members decent wages.

Those businesses should go bust & more efficient/less greedy companies which can afford to pay reasonable wages will be able to exploit the gap in the market.

What you are supporting is corporate welfare, a system in which the tax-payers are forced to bump up wages which are below what's required to live on.

I agree with all of your post - but I am not in any way supporting corporate welfare

 

[elmarko]

I agree with all of your post - but I am not in any way supporting corporate welfare

Then I must have misread part of your post - my apologies.

 

[Basher]

Then I must have misread part of your post - my apologies.

Yeah probably badly worded on my part

 

[p1RATE]

Jesus christ, now that's worrying.

yea, we should give you my job... oh wait

 

[Hatter The Mad]

yea, we should give you my job... oh wait

You're a corporate finance journalist (for something other than The Express, I presume, but even then...) yet you're saying attitudes in the United Kingdom resemble Communist attitudes?

A corporate finance journalist who doesn't know anything about Communism (a lack of knowledge you which you exposed in your posted quoted earlier)?

You're either making it up, or it is as I said deeply worrying.

 

[elmarko]

Yeah probably badly worded on my part

I think I was jumping the gun, my bad - putting two & two together sometimes results in 1.

As the term "job creator" does tend to be used to justify giving such a small share of the reward of the labour to those actually doing the work.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that we should tax people to the hilt (even people on high incomes - neither is anybody that I'm aware of).

Just the correct amount which enables the consumer base (the average working population) to flourish & become active participants in the economy.

One genuine concern I do have for wealth redistribution is the argument that we will end up using even more resources per capita than we do already - which is why any real effort to bolster the spending power of the public would also need changes put in to safeguard resources & discourage waste (eg, the production of inferior models designed to break).

 

[p1RATE]

You're a corporate finance journalist (for something other than The Express, I presume, but even then...) yet you're saying attitudes in the United Kingdom resemble Communist attitudes?

A corporate finance journalist who doesn't know anything about Communism (a lack of knowledge you which you exposed in your posted quoted earlier)?

You're either making it up, or it is as I said deeply worrying.

no i fully meant communist attitude. i should probably have said something along the lines of resentful of the rich which probably describes the attitude shift a bit more accurately

 

[Hatter The Mad]

no i fully meant communist attitude

Then you don't understand communism which is quite shocking for a corporate finance journalist

i should probably have said something along the lines of resentful of the rich which probably describes the attitude shift a bit more accurately

Well, make your mind up then. Which is it?

 

[Bear]

you think many super rich are on PAYE? really?

most have their own companies so only pay 10% tax via dividends.

As dj jester said, you will only pay 10% if you don't break into higher rate tax so unless You think the super rich are people on around £42k or what ever it is now, you are deluded.

 

[marl]

You either obey the laws of the land or you don't. If these folks have broken the law then I hope the justice system pursue's them with the same vigor it would a corner shop-keeper who commited a similar crime.

If they didn't break the law but did exploit a loophole in the tax system then I hope laws are quickly passed that plug the gap.

I think that there is a HUGE difference between wealth creation and job creation. I have no doubt that for the most successful of buisness people job creation is at the bottom of their list of priorities - after all, jobs cost money!

 

[Guile]

Curse those rich people and their investments in industries that bring employment to thousands !

Excellent distortion of the truth. There are some people who deserve their wealth for their innovation but there are so many parasites who make up the majority.

The article mentions how many billions have been stolen from Russia by the same forces who took over their country in 1917. If your media wasn't so controlled - you might have these people portayed as criminals. Are you even familiar with how these worms took control of Russia's assets during a period of unrest? The BBC doesn't tell you so you know nothing about it.

 

[marl]

Curse those rich people and their investments in industries that bring employment to thousands !

They should instead hand it over to governments who time and time again show us how well they handle the money they take off us !

So... are these 'rich people' really closet socialists, storing away their money to benefit mankind when the governments go broke?

 

[Irish_Tom]

Turns out it's all our fault for paying cash-in-hand jobs.

Now I don't deny for a second that cash-in-hand jobs removes revenue from the government coffers but I would really like to see some data comparing this with the amount lost from aggressive tax avoidance schemes.*

On the one hand, you've got a large amount of small transactions and on the other you've got a small amount of large transactions.

I wonder which is the most detrimental? I also wonder how much it would cost to police the two instances, and whether this would provide value for money.

*I appreciate it would be incredibly difficult to estimate the amount of cash-in-hand transactions that take place in a tax year but I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible

[Edit] There's now a thread about this specifically so I'll move this post.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Curse those rich people and their investments in industries that bring employment to thousands !

Bosses don't create jobs - society does by providing a demand

 

[Basher]

Bosses don't create jobs - society does by providing a demand

Who decides to fulfil that demand?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Who decides to fulfil that demand?

People who create a business. But so what? You're jumping one step ahead. They wouldn't be in a position to create a business and employ people if it wasn't for demand from society.

 

[jsmoke]

Who decides to fulfil that demand?

Yeah this could go round in circles. Maybe we are being deceived into believing that we want some product. I mean we don't need half of the things we buy. Only food and clothes and shelter.

If the wealthy were so concerned about creating jobs they would take a humble salary and put their profits into creating more jobs and they would also avoid these tax havens i believe.

The problem with that is that the more prosperous we become the more children people may have(then again maybe not, maybe the opposite) now as the population increases the need to find more and more jobs also increases. I think this is a fundamental concern for governments, such as in China where you are only allowed to have one child. It's probably a key factor in various policy making also.

I'd say it's the quality of the government above all that allows for the creation of jobs as they lay the foundation for the mood of the country. I mean look at the Tories in the 80's. They destroyed so many industries and then hiked up taxes to counter this and the country fell to pieces.

These fat cats just have no problem exploiting a free trade capitalistic system for their own ends only.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

People who create a business. But so what? You're jumping one step ahead. They wouldn't be in a position to create a business and employ people if it wasn't for demand from society.

Excellent video, cheers for that

The Tories know this though and are simply exploiting this situation to shrink the state and reduce TAX's for the super rich, a leopard doesn't change it's spots

The size of the State is not the problem if it was then Sweden would be weathering this global recession far worse than us considering their state is significantly bigger than ours!
We need to INCREASE TAX's and I would be more than happy to pay more as even looking at it from a selfish point of view it will benefit me in the long run, that's putting aside my altruistic views on the matter.

We need to get these greedy, unempathetic, unevolved scummy tories out before they completely destroy our economy!

 

[Basher]

Excellent video, cheers for that

The Tories know this though and are simply exploiting this situation to shrink the state and reduce TAX's for the super rich, a leopard doesn't change it's spots

The size of the State is not the problem if it was then Sweden would be weathering this global recession far worse than us considering their state is significantly bigger than ours!
We need to INCREASE TAX's and I would be more than happy to pay more as even looking at it from a selfish point of view it will benefit me in the long run, that's putting aside my altruistic views on the matter.

We need to get these greedy, unempathetic, unevolved scummy tories out before they completely destroy our economy!

How would increasing tax retain the best individuals in this country? I certainly know if I had to pay much more, I'd be off, as would many others.

 

[The Funktopus]

I've been saying this all along, it's all the fat cats()that have skimmed the money out of the economy. Can't really add much more as it's pretty obvious.

My cat might be fat, but what has she ever done to you?