EA servers and Paying for access

[insane200]

There are DICE official servers, which play normal lenth rounds, and have no admins, search DICE then look on the server info to see whos admin, if it has a name its not official.

As for lag, some games suffer others dont, mainly down to connection issues, but 99% of the time i have no issues, although im on ps3, im sure the xbox is much the same.

As for the Codes to unlock multiplayer, i dont see a problem, DICE pay for servers which 1000's of player use everyday, it cnt be cheap to host them , and a one of payment of £10 if you didnt buy new sounds fair.

ive played almost 300hours now and enjoyed every minute, even when frustrated by bugs,and general issues.

 

[tfcrazy]

Just to note. I never have issues connecting to servers on any EA game and have never been kicked. No matter how well I am doing.

To be honest you can generally pick up a new copy of a game cheap enough now-a-days anyway. I have not got a second hand game in over a year now. Even if I did, I generally only got them if you could get the online pass and the game for cheaper than new.

 

[Fr0dders]

Prime example is Battlefield 3, if you buy this game second hand (most people do for multiplayer) you have to pay for access to multiplayer, but the servers are laggy and sometimes you can't even find a game. Not only this but they have introduced rent a server that means you can play but you might get kicked by the host for killing him 6 times in a row because he's not very good, and theres no other alternative as they havent put up general servers for everyone else.

You say there's no other alternative, which is plain and simply wrong.

There are quite a few servers specifically saying no rules, no kicking etc.. And are great to play on. Find them and favourite the. Also try the [DICE] servers too. Check te server owner to make sure they are dice servers too.

Yes there are servers run by butt hurt admins, but every PC game using this sort of model, has this problem. The solution was just not to play on these servers

As for the servers being laggy, that must be your connection. The game struggles FPS wise in some map areas and the hit detection can be ropey, but that's nothing to do with lag

 

[scwba06]

I agree that online multiplayer should not carry an extra cost - I recently paid £8 to play FIFA online on my 2nd ps3 just so I didn't have to keep going upstairs to game.

You asked if it was legal, well EA have a right to protect their intellectual property and yet also have a right to charge for a service that they provide. Its a bit Of a grey area as you rightly pointed out that it has adverse competition law affects on the second hand market as well as potentially restraining trade (EU Law). The problem is that to take a case all the way to the House of Lords or EU court in order to get a ruling to have server prices abolished is extremely risky. It also costs tens of thousands of pounds and is a very lengthy process. Someone who isn't willing to buy the game new and wants free multiplayer with his £8 second hand game isn't likely to take that risk are they? Perhaps that is the reason it hasn't been challenged

 

[biron_w]

The second-hand market has been non-existant on PC since the introduction of serial codes.
It was inevitibly going to happen on console. You mention about having to pay the developer "again." Simple fact of the matter is, when you buy second hand- the developer doesn't see a penny from those sales. It's an unsustainable business model.
The question you sohuld be asking, if why are game stores selling preowned games - at crazy high prices. (I bought Rayman Origins for PS3 last week brand new for 17.99 in HMV. Preowned it was £16.99).
- Selling preowned games without informing the customer the online pass will likely not work and they will have to pay more.

You're forgetting that console games also cost a lot more than PC games. Generally £10-20 more. That's part of the problem IMO.
As for the price of second hand games - if people are stupid enough to pay that price for them then shops are going to sell them at that price.
There's been a lot of discussion on this board about second hand games. I always say the same thing: A lot of people trade in a game against the price of a NEW game. I don't think publishers realise this. If they stopped the second hand market then I honestly think they'd make less money as people would just buy less new games on release. They'd simply wait a few months til they came down in price.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

You see i've had my xbox for 4 years now no problems and it cost £300, i think £1000 is very expensive for something you need to update, i get that you may only spend £200-£300 updating it but thats whatever new console comes out and the rest of the £1000 on games for it... that can get you a lot of games.

The price of decent PCs is falling all the time. You can probably get a budget gaming PC for £4-500, that will be more powerful than an XBox. If you want a very powerful gaming rig, you can certainly spend more- the sky's the limit.

In fact it can be even cheaper than that. If you already have a PC, as most people do, you can just work out what you need to do to upgrade that one. (Though if it's a bland, budget one, there might be very limited upgrade potential).

 

[KaiserDJG]

You're forgetting that console games also cost a lot more than PC games. Generally £10-20 more. That's part of the problem IMO.
As for the price of second hand games - if people are stupid enough to pay that price for them then shops are going to sell them at that price.
There's been a lot of discussion on this board about second hand games. I always say the same thing: A lot of people trade in a game against the price of a NEW game. I don't think publishers realise this. If they stopped the second hand market then I honestly think they'd make less money as people would just buy less new games on release. They'd simply wait a few months til they came down in price.

This is actually what i do with all non multiplayer games but obviously you want to be in the thick of it when the latest multiplayer hits the shelves, therefore its not much of a problem for me.

Sometimes i'll pick up a secondhand game and think i'll play multiplayer to find out i cant and will be hit by a fee... i still think if it says multiplayer on the box when you buy it second hand or not you should recieve the service without additional charges.

 

[Fr0dders]

The price of decent PCs is falling all the time. You can probably get a budget gaming PC for £4-500, that will be more powerful than an XBox. If you want a very powerful gaming rig, you can certainly spend more- the sky's the limit.

In fact it can be even cheaper than that. If you already have a PC, as most people do, you can just work out what you need to do to upgrade that one. (Though if it's a bland, budget one, there might be very limited upgrade potential).

You've always been able to get half decent gaming PCs, not much use if you want to play Forza 4 or Gears of war though..

Exclusives and never having to upgrade your hardware are the key reasons people buy consoles

 

[KaiserDJG]

You've always been able to get half decent gaming PCs, not much use if you want to play Forza 4 or Gears of war though..

Exclusives and never having to upgrade your hardware are the key reasons people buy consoles

That and most people don't know how to upgrade/ build a decent PC, they will buy a box off the shelf and hope it runs whatever there going to play without really thinking about the future, then when that PC won't run there new game a year later they won't upgrade they will think its ***p and buy a console. Generally ending up settling for second best but safe.

I know where everything go's in a build and basically can work it out then just boot up a OS, but half the tech speak on here i dont understand, but i will Learn and thats the point, they can't be bothered...

i'm just going to go at my build like a tramp with hot chips and see what havok i can reek.

 

[Surfer]

As i understand it from EA perspective you aint buying the game you are paying for that entertainment experience...

e.g. You cant watch a film at the cinema and then try to trade or sell your ticket to someone else can you.

This allows them to utilize a business model which effectively means they own everything.

Some would argue that if i bought that game then why should EA or whomever have the right to profit from it again if i sell it on. They have already sold me that experience so it should be unlawful for them to try to profit TWICE or multiple times from the same limited experience they already sold to me.......

Which is what they ARE doing with the 2nd hand market ie part of the experience that is originally sold to the original purchaser is RESOLD to another purchaser...

Now technically they kinda get away with this because they own, maintain and keep the servers going so its dynamic content not fixed (like on the disc)

thoughts?

 

[KaiserDJG]

As i understand it from EA perspective you aint buying the game you are paying for that entertainment experience...

e.g. You cant watch a film at the cinema and then try to trade or sell your ticket to someone else can you.

This allows them to utilize a business model which effectively means they own everything.

Some would argue that if i bought that game then why should EA or whomever have the right to profit from it again if i sell it on. They have already sold me that experience so it should be unlawful for them to try to profit TWICE or multiple times from the same limited experience they already sold to me.......

Which is what they ARE doing with the 2nd hand market ie part of the experience that is originally sold to the original purchaser is RESOLD to another purchaser...

Now technically they kinda get away with this because they own, maintain and keep the servers going so its dynamic content not fixed (like on the disc)

thoughts?

I bought that multiplayer experiance when i purchce first time, when i leave the server is free of a person so the next can take my place they effewctivly buy my spot from that purchace second hand, why should they pay again.... what if id kept the game...

 

[El_Commi]

Some would argue that if i bought that game then why should EA or whomever have the right to profit from it again if i sell it on. They have already sold me that experience so it should be unlawful for them to try to profit TWICE or multiple times from the same limited experience they already sold to me.......


thoughts?

I think they would probably argue that, you aren't buying an experience or the game but a licence to use that game, which is non-transferrable. Which probably gives them enough legal room to wrangle.

I agree that online multiplayer should not carry an extra cost - I recently paid £8 to play FIFA online on my 2nd ps3 just so I didn't have to keep going upstairs to game.

You know that on a PS3- you can have DLC (including online passes) activated on 2 consoles? Used to be 5, but Sony changed it.
If you sign in to your PSN account on the console, download the DLC from your Download list, it will/should allow all PSN ID's on that console to access those features. This 100% works for online passes, not sure if it works for B2K/CQ etc.
So you shouldn't have to buy an online pass to play on a second console.


I agree that big developers like the Fifa Studio/Dice etc probably don't need to charge online passes (etc) because they make so much in first hand sales. But with smaller studios I think so, especially when you have titles like Heavy Rain, where over 1/3rd of those who played it never paid the developers for it. Remember the developer doesn't get the £45.
They get a % of that, most of it goes to the retailer, publisher, and manufacturing costs. If a developer doesn't make enough money, they can't create innovotive titles- due to being more risk averse.

 

[MeMeMeMe]

You've always been able to get half decent gaming PCs, not much use if you want to play Forza 4 or Gears of war though..

Exclusives and never having to upgrade your hardware are the key reasons people buy consoles

I was responding to someone who talked about being interested in switching to PC from consoles, but was put off by the price of PCs. How is your point relevant?

 

[Surfer]

I think they would probably argue that, you aren't buying an experience or the game but a licence to use that game, which is non-transferrable. Which probably gives them enough legal room to wrangle.

Problem is when their eulas infringe upon your right of resell of a product you have purchased.

Have a look at this recent news...hope on the horizon possibly

basically European Court of Justice sides with consumer in favour of reselling of software

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/07/top-eu-court-upholds-right-to-resell-downloaded-software/

 

[biron_w]

I think they would probably argue that, you aren't buying an experience or the game but a licence to use that game, which is non-transferrable. Which probably gives them enough legal room to wrangle.

Nope. You are buying the game outright. Well,the copy of the game that you've purchased. You are then free to sell this on if you wish. Which is why it's just been ruled that people should be able to sell on downloaded games.

 

[jamesy505]

Hello

Just wanted to ask why the hell EA have started to make people pay for access to multiplayer and why are the servers so **** even though you now must pay!

Prime example is Battlefield 3, if you buy this game second hand (most people do for multiplayer) you have to pay for access to multiplayer, but the servers are laggy and sometimes you can't even find a game. Not only this but they have introduced rent a server that means you can play but you might get kicked by the host for killing him 6 times in a row because he's not very good, and theres no other alternative as they havent put up general servers for everyone else.

When you think about all this it looks like EA are just cashing in, yes we want to play your game, we have bought it 2nd hand but don't want t pay you extra for access to multiplayer... we bought the game ... all of it, not just half.

I really don't understand why there isn't a lawsuit going on, when a company sells a game, you buy what it advertises on the box even if its second hand it should still apply...

I bought BF3 brand new and so don't have the problem but i sold it when they started selling servers and i couldent get a match without someone kicking me because i beat them or with some stupid rules.

What do you guys think ? Is this EA cashing in on thier grip on the market or do you think us gamers should pay extra for something the game advertises on the box...

BF3 on Xbox for me has no issues, there are plenty of general DICE servers as well as the "Rent a server" games. I never get kicked but maybe im not as good as you

If you buy the game new you get all access. If you buy 2nd hand you are not giving any money to the developer\publisher. Any normal gaming person knows the risks of buying a 2nd hand game and whether an online pass is required.

Maybe you want EA to make game cases for new and 2nd hand games so they can take away the parts on the 2nd hand game case that you wont get?

 

[KaiserDJG]

Maybe you want EA to make game cases for new and 2nd hand games so they can take away the parts on the 2nd hand game case that you wont get?

No i'd like them to stop robbing everyone for something they have already been paid for once, when i stop playing and sell the game the person buying it can use my server space i paid for... there is no reason to charge them.

 

[Logsi]

When you think about all this it looks like EA are just cashing in, yes we want to play your game, we have bought it 2nd hand but don't want t pay you extra for access to multiplayer... we bought the game ... all of it, not just half. .

So who did you buy that from then? EA?

How much money did EA get from your second hand purchase?

 

[KaiserDJG]

So who did you buy that from then? EA?

How much money did EA get from your second hand purchase?

They got it all from the 1st hand one, when i stop playing on the server the 2nd hand buyer uses the space.. they shouldent have to pay for that ... i already did.

 

[wannabedamned]

They got it all from the 1st hand one, when i stop playing on the server the 2nd hand buyer uses the space.. they shouldent have to pay for that ... i already did.

This is how I've always felt about it. Yes fair enough EA doesnt get money from the new Purchase, But they got the money for the units sale initially!