and so it begins - GameStop Wants to Sell Used Digital Games

[Omaeka]

How many cars or TVs do you think there would be, if second hand market was disallowed.

The same as there are now, you act like something that's preowned suddenly creates an extra unit, lol.

Any sales figure you will ever find, doesn't take preownership into account whatsoever.

The only thing that skews it is piracy and that severely needs clamping down on.

I agree, I'd swap the ability to pirate for the ability to demo everything in a heartbeat, at least that way I wouldn't have to break the god damn law just to exorcise my rights.

For goods, we allreaysd have a right to try before you buy and I bet if taken to eu court this would extend to software, this don't give you a right or justifys piracy. Iould have no issue for some sort of tru before you buy right, but we can't have it all consumers way, developers need their rights protecting at the same time.

I agree, I'd love for somebody to take it to court and make it illegal not to issue a demo alongside a game. Your second part I strongly disagree with personally, but compared to reality you are correct, and that is what is wrong with this world. The rights of a corporation has the potential to overwrite or nullify the rights of an individual, no matter how petty or minor the manner in which it happens may be, its still wrong.

that's not going to happen and you know it.
You also know full well, you aren't the normal. Piracy does not normally equal sales.
And even when it does it equals less sales.
If you didn't have piracy, you would buy, you would have no option. It's why a lot of these so called "stats" are skewed. Because they assume people who pirate would not buy at all. They would, we used to.

Rather than pirating 20 games for free, you would buy 2 or 3 games.

If use at least semi realistic ball park figures, I wouldn't call it rubbish. But guess what you don't. You know full well 1 piracy does not in any world equal 1 sale. And you know full well 50sales doesn't translate into millions of second hand sales. Your purposely skewing numbers unrealistic lay to try and show your point. Yes you are indeed talking rubbish.

I wasn't being so literal, it was an example as to how it works.

Piracy has a chance, whether it be 1% or 100%, it doesn't matter, the chance is still there for the creator to generate revenue.

Preownership as it stands has no way of benefiting the creator, period.

In terms of damage to the market, as much as Piracy may do, it still has the potential to undo some of the damage. Preownership is just going to put a bullet in it and walk away. Lets hope it survives.

I wish all the people who pirated just to avoid paying couldn't do so, agreed. But not at the costs of the right to demo something, to not release a demo is morally wrong from the developers side.

 

[Glaucus]

The same as there are now, you act like something that's preowned suddenly creates an extra unit, lol.

Any sales figure you will ever find, doesn't take preownership into account whatsoever..

no I don't act like that at all, get it right and at least use half belivable figures.
For a second hand sale to exist, there must be 1 to 1 sale in the first place.

The same is not for your randomly picked numbers which you know are irrelevant and wrong.
1piracy does not equal 1 sale
And 50 sold alphas never equalled millions of second hand figures.

At least try figures inter realms of the ball park. But no you can't do that, as that would prove you wrong.

 

[Jokester]

just to exorcise my rights.

You don't have a right to try anything before you buy.

 

[arknor]

Not going to work is it GFWL/Steam/Origin all forbid selling the account few notable games do not use these services.

Publishers/Developers are not going to let this happen they will put more DLC in & or withold game content for registered accounts only there are many way they can stop this altogether.

and they are going to go against a european ruling and stop selling games in europe? unlikely

 

[Witcher1979]

I agree, I'd swap the ability to pirate for the ability to demo everything in a heartbeat, at least that way I wouldn't have to break the god damn law just to exorcise my rights.

Youtube plus reviews? Combined gives you a damned good idea of a game. I used to be a pirate, now I have over 200 paid for games and not one piece of pirated material on my machine (never will have now either), I feel better for it as well.

 

[arc@css]

Who's waiting to shift their copy of Ricochet?

 

[Komedy]

But it doesn't... Lets look at it like this:

Person A pirates game, enjoys, pays for it. Sale +1.

Person B buys game. Sale +1. Person B sells game onto Person C, Person C's copy generates 0£ for the developer, therefore Sale -1.

1 - 1 = ?

So the other side to this analogy..

I buy TokiTori - Sale +1
I sell TokiTori to mate
I am now able to buy TokiTori 2 - Sale +1
My mate enjoys the 1st game so much he buys TokiTori 2 as well - Sale +1

Therefore in this analogy the Dev actually got Sales +2 from my ability to sell the game on?

 

[Komedy]

Double Post

 

[Swi1ch]

This is horrible news. At least with Steam before, cheaply priced Indie games would be tempting enough for players to buy and make the devs some money. With this, players are just going to wait for 'pre-owned' copies to be available. As much as I'd hope Valve would be cool and give money from second hand sales to the devs, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[smogsy]

gamestop all im gunna say

what more do you expect?

 

[Glaucus]

This is horrible news. At least with Steam before, cheaply priced Indie games would be tempting enough for players to buy and make the devs some money. With this, players are just going to wait for 'pre-owned' copies to be available. As much as I'd hope Valve would be cool and give money from second hand sales to the devs, I'm not holding my breath.

They might have to, they have to secure the licensing costs, which might either cost more, or only allow those license if they implement a steam second hand store where they get x% of the sale. Think of it like nay other store. Steam take 15% cut, developer 15% cut and seller 70% or what ever number they agree on.

This will almost certainly go to court of appeals anyway, so all might come to nothing yet.

 

[spoffle]

A game pirated has a chance to generate a sale, regardless of what you say it is true, there is evidence to support that from personal accounts of me and no doubt thousands of people from this forum.

A game preowned is a total loss of a single sale. A game could sell 50 copies new and 10 million copies preowned. It'll only generate 50 copies worth of revenue for whoever created it.

Also, its nice to see you're constantly bringing my person into this, slating me as stupid, talking rubbish etc. when you bring absolutely nothing solid to sway the disagreement in your favor. All you can do is claim what I say is wrong, shame.

A sale of a pre-owned game isn't a loss, it's nothing like piracy, and companies don't have a divine right of maximum profit. They should have absolutely no involvement or entitlement to funds from a second hand sale.

However, I do see the problem with companies trying to capitalise on second hand digital goods. It doesn't make sense to have a business based around it. I see absolutely no issue with private sales between individuals though.

 

[Omaeka]

So the other side to this analogy..

I buy TokiTori - Sale +1
I sell TokiTori to mate
I am now able to buy TokiTori 2 - Sale +1
My mate enjoys the 1st game so much he buys TokiTori 2 as well - Sale +1

Therefore in this analogy the Dev actually got Sales +2 from my ability to sell the game on?

That's not a fact though, the fact the preowned sale effectively nullifies the first sale is true, whereas selling a game for its sequel is far from set in stone.

I'd agree to preownership, if it for example; sell a Ubisoft title and you get the money towards another Ubisoft title (example so please don't take it so bloody literally and flame me for mentioning Ubisoft or whatever, sigh).

 

[Simi]

I used to pirate when I was skint, mainly as quality control, not to steal it and get something for nothing but to make sure that it was good enough to buy. If the game grabbed me in the first hour then I'd use my limited funds to buy it, if it didn't grab me then I wouldn't play it through to then end as it wasn't worth my time anyway.
I understand that some people wouldn't bother buying after getting it for free though, but not everyone was brought up that way.
Now, in the days of Steam sales and other companies selling games dirt cheap it's easier to write off the loss spent on a bad game as it's not much, but spending £40 on a steaming pile is damn hard to swallow, no matter how much money I have available.

 

[Glaucus]

That's not a fact though, the fact the preowned sale effectively nullifies the first sale is true, whereas selling a game for its sequel is far from set in stone.

I'd agree to preownership, if it for example; sell a Ubisoft title and you get the money towards another Ubisoft title (example so please don't take it so bloody literally and flame me for mentioning Ubisoft or whatever, sigh).

Except the figure we have from every other market that exists. Digital in reality is little difference. The conversion figures will be far better than your beloved piracy of 1 piracy equals 1 sale rubbish.

 

[Omaeka]

Except the figure we have from every other market that exists. Digital in reality is little difference. The conversion figures will be far better than your beloved piracy of 1 piracy equals 1 sale rubbish.

When have I ever said piracy is a 1 to 1 sale? I'm aware of the amount of people who abuse piracy.

Also, are you drunk?

 

[Komedy]

That's not a fact though, the fact the preowned sale effectively nullifies the first sale is true, whereas selling a game for its sequel is far from set in stone.

I'd agree to preownership, if it for example; sell a Ubisoft title and you get the money towards another Ubisoft title (example so please don't take it so bloody literally and flame me for mentioning Ubisoft or whatever, sigh).

don't get me wrong every time this has come up in the last week or two its gets a lot of hot debate, I guess since the ruling a lot of people are unsure how it could work and how it will affect the games industry, I'm not overly worried as at the end of the day the market will just have to adapt.

People will still make games - people will still sell games - there's money in it after all and always will be

 

[Glaucus]

When have I ever said piracy is a 1 to 1 sale? I'm aware of the amount of people who abuse piracy.

:

when you used absurd numbers

Person A pirates game, enjoys, pays for it. Sale +1.

So either that's 1=1 or your second part of those numbers is wrong. You cant have it both ways. You can't say piracy equals sales. But second hand market never gives money to buy new games.

 

[T345]

That does not make sense? How could you sell a digital game that is used, woulden't it be the same thing?

 

[Glaucus]

That does not make sense? How could you sell a digital game that is used, woulden't it be the same thing?

Yes and no, it has it's own serial key, so you can't use it all at once, like piracy. It would be removed from your computer and the next person gets access. You couldn't both have it.