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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8011037/Rodgers-rules-out-Carroll-exit

Is Brendan Rodgers demented? He was quoted in July saying Carroll was not part of his plans at Liverpool. It has been widely quoted by West Ham they had an offer accepted by Liverpool for a season long loan with the option to buy. And then he comes out and says this!!

Is it something that only happens to Liverpool managers? Some of the quotes Kenny Daglish came out with last season were just as bad too
 
wedgie said:
Of course I do, that's the only way I could make that assumption isn't it :p.

Well that and the fact that other than the rumoured bid from Zenit there's been not a whisper as far as offers for Nani go. I will concede that it is possible there have been multiple £20m+ bids for him that have somehow managed to stay private, but given the kind of money we'd be talking about, I find that unlikely enough that I'm comfortable with assuming no news = no bids.
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Or perhaps it means we don't want to sell :confused:
 
Shamikebab said:
Or perhaps it means we don't want to sell :confused:
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And that answers the bids staying private how? :confused:

We're not acting like we don't want to sell, we're not scrambling to offer him a new deal nor is Nani or his agent acting like he's suddenly in a position of power as you'd expect if a few huge bids had come in for him.

No news = no bids is a fairly safe assumption to make, no news = offers that we've rejected is totally illogical.
 
rossk26 said:
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/8011037/Rodgers-rules-out-Carroll-exit

Is Brendan Rodgers demented? He was quoted in July saying Carroll was not part of his plans at Liverpool. It has been widely quoted by West Ham they had an offer accepted by Liverpool for a season long loan with the option to buy. And then he comes out and says this!!

Is it something that only happens to Liverpool managers? Some of the quotes Kenny Daglish came out with last season were just as bad too
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Well maybe he's not convinced about Suarez's finishing and feels the need to keep Carroll on.
 
wedgie said:
Of course I do, that's the only way I could make that assumption isn't it :p.

Well that and the fact that other than the rumoured bid from Zenit there's been not a whisper as far as offers for Nani go. I will concede that it is possible there have been multiple £20m+ bids for him that have somehow managed to stay private, but given the kind of money we'd be talking about, I find that unlikely enough that I'm comfortable with assuming no news = no bids.
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Clubs make enquiries over players all the time, just because you dont read about them doesn't mean they dont happen. To assume the only interest in players are ones that the tabloids pick up is rather naive. I'd imagine Fergie has had countless phone calls about Nani (and other players) all summer long, the fact the Zenit interest has made it public is either journalists simply making stuff up to fill their papers, Zenit themselves wanting to make their interest public or Nani's agent feeding the press stories during his contract negotiations
 
Paul Pogba has spoken to L'Equipe about his summer switch from United to Juventus. The Frenchman opted to head to Serie A and responded to Sir Alex's frustration that he did not want to stay at Old Trafford. "There were things we did not agree on," said Pogba. "I do not regret anything. I learned a lot there but you must understand my decision. The coach trusted me but said I was too young. He said: 'Your time will come' but it was not coming. Despite his 25-year career, despite the fact he is the boss, my goal was to play. I do not know why he [Sir Alex] said that. A 19-year-old youngster says 'no' to Ferguson - maybe has a little trouble [with that]. But it will not change anything for me, I will not speak ill of Manchester. I love this club. The players and staff there know that I have not disrespected them."
 
It's probably more to do with finding a suitable replacement in the time left. Teams seem to be doing their buying before the deadline this season, learning from the problems of the past couple of seasons (and Liverpool know all about that).

You've got to assume that they wouldn't be interested in finding an average forward such as N'gog - they'd want someone who can come in and score goals. They need a poacher anyway... I hate to say it, but I think Owen could still work well in that role - he's missing the pace that he once had, but he still found space in the box when he played for Man U, and I think if he played regularly for Liverpool last season, he'd have scored at least as many as Suarez or Carroll. They need a Fowler or a Kevin Phillips.
 
I can't see where the goals are going to come from then. Suarez is a 12 a season tops, he creates more than he scores. Borini albeit only one game played wide left and looked average. Then there's Downing, who can't create or score.

Allen, Lucas and Gerrard were all far too deep to even be considered as a 10 goals a season midfielder. Carroll can and will score goals if given the service. In his 19 appearances for Newcastle before we sold him to Liverpool, he bagged 11 goals. Compare that to Suarez who needed a full season (31 games) to get 11 goals.

Yes, maybe Suarez looks the better player, but for me, I'd be wanting to play the goal scorer.
 
Tom84 said:
Clubs make enquiries over players all the time, just because you dont read about them doesn't mean they dont happen. To assume the only interest in players are ones that the tabloids pick up is rather naive. I'd imagine Fergie has had countless phone calls about Nani (and other players) all summer long, the fact the Zenit interest has made it public is either journalists simply making stuff up to fill their papers, Zenit themselves wanting to make their interest public or Nani's agent feeding the press stories during his contract negotiations
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I've made no such assumption, if you'll notice I said rumoured bid from Zenit, just because it was in the paper does not mean I automatically believe it. Of course discussions and enquiries will go on all the time behind the scenes and most will never see the light of day, that's not really the point here. We're talking about a handful of clubs that could make the kind of offer we'd consider selling Nani for, these kind of bids rarely stay private, and rarely does a determined club take a polite no for an answer. As I said above, it is possible such bids have been made and have somehow managed to stay out of the public domain, for some reason you don't want to accept that it's more likely that no concrete bids have been made. Athough you accept that the rumoured interest from Zenit could be Nani's agent stirring the pot, what possible sense then does it make that he'd be keeping quiet about these other offers your speculating on having happened? I'll just mention this one bid we might have had, it's ok I won't mention a thing about these three other huge offers we've had... doesn't quite add up does it.

Might as well speculate about every single player in the world in that case. If you want to convince yourself that all of our players are highly sought after then good for you, calling me out because I said it's a safe bet that we've had no bids for Nani is club bias in the extreme. What if I'd said there's been no bids for Gerrard, or Terry, or Wilshire? Same logic applies there doesn't it? Or maybe you'd be able to see that there's no reason to believe massive bids have been made for them because they don't play for your club?

There's a million and one things that could be going on behind the scenes with any player at any club, none of this we can know so why speculate on it? What we do know is huge bids for players don't often stay private, unless you also want to speculate that for every £30m deal that goes through, there's also another ten £30m deals that we never hear about? Sure there could be, but there's zero reason to believe that. If you want to believe clubs are trying to buy Nani then that's ok, not going to say you're wrong, you might not be. But lets not make out that's the sensible view on things, and to think we'd know about multiple £20+ bids is utterly ridiculous.
 
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rossk26 said:
But he said he would be a nutcase to let Carroll go on loan. Yet only a week ago West Ham had a loan bid accepted :confused:
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West Ham's offer had a guarantee transfer fee at the end of it providing they stay up and according to Fat Sam, Liverpool didn't accept the bid.
 
wedgie said:
I've made no such assumption.
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You said and I quote

the lack of clubs willing to take him off us is the more true reflection of his recent performances.
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My argument is there is nothing to suggest Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Bayern Munich and so on haven't made enquiries, if those enquiries have been met with a no he's not for sale at any price then that's it unless someone like Zenit (hypothetically) then want to make their interest known to the public.

Fact of the matter is we're having this discussion because you insinuated the lack of public interest means he's not wanted by the big clubs and that's utter rubbish unless you can prove otherwise. Which you cant.

EDIT: As for the 3 players you used as examples, I'd imagine both Liverpool and Chelsea could have had enquiries about Gerrard and Terry, possibly not from this country but maybe from the likes of Dubai or China. I'd bet money on Arsenal having enquiries over Wilshire from all the big clubs though even with him being injured.
 
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Tom84 said:
My argument is there is nothing to suggest Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Bayern Munich and so on haven't made enquiries, if those enquiries have been met with a no he's not for sale at any price then that's it unless someone like Zenit (hypothetically) then want to make their interest known to the public.

Fact of the matter is we're having this discussion because you insinuated the lack of public interest means he's not wanted by the big clubs and that's utter rubbish unless you can prove otherwise. Which you cant.
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I do see your argument, I accepted from the outset that this is possible. But sorry, why do I have to prove bids haven't been made to be able to assume it? Come on, which is a more logical assumption, we've not heard about bids because they haven't been made, or we've not heard about bids but they infact have been made?

Both are possible, but how does the burden of proof fall on me when it's your view that relies on things happening behind the scenes that we don't know about?
 
BaZ87 said:
West Ham's offer had a guarantee transfer fee at the end of it providing they stay up and according to Fat Sam, Liverpool didn't accept the bid.
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Jack Sullivan (owners sun) tweeted about the bid being accepted but Carroll not wanting to join the club.

The bid was accepted, Carroll refused to sign as he wants European football (i.e. he only wants to join Newcastle). I also think he still wants to prove himself at Liverpool too.
 
wedgie said:
I do see your argument, I accepted from the outset that this is possible. But sorry, why do I have to prove bids haven't been made to be able to assume it? Come on, which is a more logical assumption, we've not heard about bids because they haven't been made, or we've not heard about bids but they infact have been made?

Both are possible, but how does the burden of proof fall on me when it's your view that relies on things happening behind the scenes that we don't know about?
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Fact of the matter is you cant prove interest hasn't been lodged/bids made just as I cant prove they have, of the two of us though I'm not the one that said because we haven't read anything means no one wants him ;)

In terms of which is a more logicial assumption I'd would have thought the logical thing would be to look at the player in question and then ask yourself would there be clubs that would be interested in him? And in Nani's case the obvious answer is yes.
 
Tom84 said:
Fact of the matter is you cant prove interest hasn't been lodged/bids made just as I cant prove they have, of the two of us though I'm not the one that said because we haven't read anything means no one wants him ;)
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I don't need to prove it though do I, with the information we have available it's absolutely possible for me to view things one way, and you another. I don't really need to prove anything to you to hold my opinion, just like I'm not asking for proof from you to justify yours, I just disagree based on what we currently know. Something could come along tomorrow that tells us he was sought after all along, or is now, but it also might not. And clearly, I've at no point said nobody wants him because we've heard nothing as if it's a fact. I've conceded more than once that this is also a possibility, why did I bother if you're going to ignore that and keep assuming I'm making a different point? To be clear, what I said was I'm comfortable assuming no news = no bids. That does not mean I'm telling you for 100% certain that's how it is, it's simply my view based on what we know about the situation, and what we know about how big money transfers often work.
Tom84 said:
In terms of which is a more logicial assumption I'd would have thought the logical thing would be to look at the player in question and then ask yourself would there be clubs that would be interested in him? And in Nani's case the obvious answer is yes.
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The obvious answer is yes if you include all clubs, narrow it down to the clubs that would be able to pay the kind of transfer fee we would demand then it's not quite such an obvious yes. You also have to factor in how many clubs would think they even have a chance of getting him to leave United for threm, I'd guess we're talking about less than 10 clubs here.
 
rossk26 said:
Jack Sullivan (owners sun) tweeted about the bid being accepted but Carroll not wanting to join the club.

The bid was accepted, Carroll refused to sign as he wants European football (i.e. he only wants to join Newcastle). I also think he still wants to prove himself at Liverpool too.
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How old is Jack Sullivan?

Fat Sam gave an interview where he said that West Ham never received permission to talk to Carroll from Liverpool.

edit: Here's a pic of Jack Sullivan:

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1497276023/image.jpg

You're going to take the word of a child that looks about 8?
 
rossk26 said:
Jack Sullivan (owners sun) tweeted about the bid being accepted but Carroll not wanting to join the club.

The bid was accepted, Carroll refused to sign as he wants European football (i.e. he only wants to join Newcastle). I also think he still wants to prove himself at Liverpool too.
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The bid was not accepted by Liverpool,

Allardyce seems to think West Ham's interest is dead in the water, as he said: "We never agreed with Liverpool any deal to be able to speak to Andy Carroll to see if he would join us.
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from ; http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11685/7996666/Allardyce-gives-up-on-Carroll
 
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