Probably not much different considering they were being called out to an incident not expecting to be set upon by a murderer with a pistol and hand grenades.
Manchester Police Officer killed during arrest.
- Thread starter TheMightyTen
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Probably not much different considering they were being called out to an incident not expecting to be set upon by a murderer with a pistol and hand grenades.
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It still takes time to process a threat and draw, albeit very quick but when you are suddenly faced with a grenade and a firearm who would be quick enough ......
I remember going on a drugs warrant and asking if the lad had anything to declare so to speak. I was met with him taking a .303 Bren gun from the downstairs cupboard and putting it on the floor with tripod and barrel facing me and although he backed off when he saw my look and it was innocent enough ( deac licence ), I had visions of meeting my maker.
All police need to carry at least a sidearm.... you need to be able to enforce the law in all situations,especially the dangerous ones that you just described. If even you as a cop have to run,what comes after you?
Arming the police isn't necessarily going to mean less police officers being killed.
The issue is a hell of a lot more complex than most people seem to realise. Giving the police guns isn't going to solve much in itself, and it'll create plenty of new problems too.
Ok,educate me please...
I've lived in countries where the police is armed and don't see how that was detrimental in any way? The cops certainly weren't cowboys.
Sometimes the law will be enforced at the tip of the gun,that is a fact!
Most cops won't ever fire their gun... most Cops won't ever even draw their gun. But sometimes it will be necessary to have it to protect the public and themselves.
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I think it's even more sad that people can carry licensed fire arms and that guns are easy to come by. Manchester is called gunchester for a reason.
Soldato
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I disagree
Seeing a gun in the hand of police would definitely make the offender think twice such as in this situation. If those two victims were trained in the use of fire arms and carried these with them, their survival rate would have increased dramatically.
It may well have been the offender lying dead and for good reasons.
These cops were armed. These cops were responding to an armed robbery. These cops are aware that nearly every call out they receive could be an attempt to lure them into a trap to be killed. And despite this, nobody pulled a gun out, rolled across the bonnet of a car and fired off a volley of shots at the escaping offenders because when someone hits you with the element of surprise, there's not a lot you can do, regardless of how well armed you might be.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/08/belfast-grenade-attack-police
The only thing that saved them was luck.
Why doesn't a baton and or PAVA spray make offenders think twice?
the counter argument would be Jean Charles de Menezes who was wrongly shot dead by highly trained police officers.
there is no simple solution here.
The vast majority of police officers do not want to be armed. So immediately you have a problem: Do you force them to be armed, or do you make it optional? If you force them, you risk them leaving entirely. If you make it optional, you're then in a tricky situation of having both armed and unarmed officers doing the same tasks and responding to the same calls.
Then you have the issue of training. A large number of police officers aren't going to pass the assessments. Do we train them to the same standard as AFOs, the officers who crew Armed Response Vehicles? Do we train them to a lesser standard to make it more likely that officers will pass? Is that even acceptable?
Then there's cost. At the last count I can find, we had just under 136,000 police officers. So that's 136,000 (in reality it'd be a fair amount less) 9mm pistols that need to be purchased, training paid for, and other facilities within police stations upgraded so the weapons can be secured. With police services already facing severe budget cuts, it's not something that they can afford at the moment.
Logistical and practical issues aside, you've then got the moral and ethical issues. It goes without saying that if more police officers have firearms, more firearms will be used, both by police and by criminals. I interviewed a police sergeant who does firearms training for TVP a few years back, and the point he made was that if you give police officers a piece of equipment, train them how to use it and when to use it, it'll eventually start to be used when it isn't necessary. It happened with batons, it happened with incapacitant spray, it's happening with Taser and it'll happen with firearms. That's not to say that there is necessarily deliberate misuse occurring, but it's very easy to feel in danger and go straight to the most 'powerful' item you're carrying, rather than deal with the situation using a different approach.
I'm not going to go into much more detail otherwise I'll just end up re-writing my degree dissertation. There are many other things we can try before we get to a point where we need a routinely armed police service, however. Taser is the most obvious one.
Maybe a few years back when there was a lot of trouble in Moss side. I certainly wouldnt say that Manchester has a worse gun problem than any other big city in the UK.
lol yooouuuuuuuuu.......!
Seriously, you want to spend my hard earned on educating and 'rehabilitating' (whatever that means) this piece of **** so we can release him back into society?
Just lol.
Ha, too true!
Nonsense, he'll become a lifer along with the other lifers in prison. No way will they ever let him out if convicted of murdering 4 people 2 of which police officers
Lol wut?
Don'r really give a **** tbh, it would be a pleasure to pull the lever/push the button/whatever for this ****.
Anyone who thinks he deserves rehab, education or another chance is living on another planet IMO.