Missing girl 15, runs off with Maths teacher.

grimm · 26 Sep 2012 at 10:59

Xordium said:
And people who are in positions of power over minors have a higher responsibility placed upon them for a reason. And this is the reason whether actively or passively he has abused a position of responsibility. The age limit is there for a reason it's the law - he broke it.

You walk past a car with the door open and the key in - you say hmm nice car I could just take that you know - and yet you do not.

Now you're the one coming up with ridiculous analogies

Stealing a car and having a relationship in this instance are completely unrelated.

I'm not disputing the fact that the law is there and that there is a reason for the law. I'm just saying that it doesn't produce a fair outcome in all cases. It could be potentially destroying a man's life and a perfectly functional relationship. This would have a negative impact on the girl who the law is supposed to protecting, assuming it is all consensual.

clv101 · 26 Sep 2012 at 10:59

robgmun said:
I think this post is the most spot on so far. I'm really interested in just how far off her 16th birthday was. As if i was in position i would have quit being a teacher a couple of months before her 16th. Wait until the day after her birthday and then run off.

The fact he didn't even think about that shows he a very naive idiot and now will go to jail for a couple of years. By which time she would have found someone else. He seriously shot himself in the foot for the rest of his life.

Agreed - the strangest thing about this whole story is how dumb the teacher has been. Screwed up his life for the sake of a few months it seems. :confused:

Xordium · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:01

Richie said:
Why DO we feel embarrassed about it though? Is it wrong for a guy to be attracted to a physically mature girl OR, is it more that we feel guilty because of what other people might think of the guy? Or is it a bit of both?

Do people feel embarrassed? Or is it a betrayal of trust. It is not wrong for the guy to feel attracted to a physically mature girl. It is wrong for him to then act on those desires with blatant disregard to laws and consequences he would have been well aware of.

PiKe · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:03

grimm said:
Now you're the one coming up with ridiculous analogies

Stealing a car and having a relationship in this instance are completely unrelated.

Yeah but you're still getting inside something when you know it's wrong :eek:

Xordium · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:06

grimm said:
Now you're the one coming up with ridiculous analogies

Stealing a car and having a relationship in this instance are completely unrelated.

I'm not disputing the fact that the law is there and that there is a reason for the law. I'm just saying that it doesn't produce a fair outcome in all cases. It could be potentially destroying a man's life and a perfectly functional relationship. This would have a negative impact on the girl who the law is supposed to protecting, assuming it is all consensual.

No, having the desire to do something wrong and acting on that impulse are important concepts that go throughout life no matter where they are applied.

Is not fair on the man you mean. But he signed up for a profession where he knew he would be both accountable and responsible for his actions. He would have been given direct advice and training in these very situations. He would have been aware of his responsibilities both to the girl, but also his profession, the girl's family, the school etc. And he betrayed all the trust placed in him.

Plus I note you constantly are talking about 'physically mature' the law is quite specific and constantly refers to 'emotional' and 'mental' maturity an alltogether different thing.

PiKe said:
Yeah but you're still getting inside something when you know it's wrong

Meh, you nicked my next line :-(

Subliminal Aura · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:06

clv101 said:
Agreed - the strangest thing about this whole story is how dumb the teacher has been. Screwed up his life for the sake of a few months it seems.

Yep does anyone know her exact age.... but in all fairness it doesn't really help or matter as looking through the interviews it seems that they were a 'couple' for a fair amount of time

Burnsy2023 · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:13

Xordium said:
If that was the case he would follow the established protocols for when those accusations are made not commit a crime.

He may not have committed a crime but it could've easily ended his career regardless.

Burnsy2023 · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:14

clv101 said:
Agreed - the strangest thing about this whole story is how dumb the teacher has been. Screwed up his life for the sake of a few months it seems.

That's assuming he's ever found again, which isn't a certainty.

PiKe · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:15

Burnsy2023 said:
That's assuming he's ever found again, which isn't a certainty.

They're bound to leave some sort of trail, what are they doing for money?

Xordium · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:18

Burnsy2023 said:
He may not have committed a crime but it could've easily ended his career regardless.

Yes, and this is one of the problems facing men entering such professions. There needs to be check and balances both ways.

But nevertheless following protocol would have given a better outcome than giving into her in that example given.

Burnsy2023 · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:21

PiKe said:
They're bound to leave some sort of trail, what are they doing for money?

They may have taken a load of cash. They may start working someone cash in hand. People go missing all the time, never to be found again, it's actually not that difficult if that's what you intend to do.

grimm · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:22

Xordium said:
No, having the desire to do something wrong and acting on that impulse are important concepts that go throughout life no matter where they are applied.

Is not fair on the man you mean. But he signed up for a profession where he knew he would be both accountable and responsible for his actions. He would have been given direct advice and training in these very situations. He would have been aware of his responsibilities both to the girl, but also his profession, the girl's family, the school etc. And he betrayed all the trust placed in him.

Plus I note you constantly are talking about 'physically mature' the law is quite specific and constantly refers to 'emotional' and 'mental' maturity an alltogether different thing.

Meh, you nicked my next line

I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything about physical maturity. Perhaps you're thinking of someone else's post there?

Are you saying then that you think that this guy should go to prison or just lose his job?

I acknowledge that there are laws in place, and I am aware of these. I have already stated that I think he has done something wrong here and he should lose his job, but I certainly don't think he should go to prison or anything that drastic assuming this is all consensual.

I'm also saying that there is the possibility that the relationship is sound and could continue happily and healthily for many years.

Burnsy2023 · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:22

Xordium said:
Yes, and this is one of the problems facing men entering such professions. There needs to be check and balances both ways.

But nevertheless following protocol would have given a better outcome than giving into her in that example given.

That's easy to say in hindsight, but not all decisions made are logical or indeed the best at the time. People make mistakes. I think the point is that we should make assumptions and judge in the absence of evidence to the contrary.

Burnsy2023 · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:23

grimm said:
I acknowledge that there are laws in place, and I am aware of these. I have already stated that I think he has done something wrong here and he should lose his job, but I certainly don't think he should go to prison or anything that drastic assuming this is all consensual.

IMO, this is completely dependent on whether they've had sex. That changes things.

covenantuk · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:28

Forget all the moral arguments.

You have to deal with the law as it stands, which like it or not sees abusing a position of trust as more serious than the same crime without the trust. This applies not only to teachers - bank employees who steal money are given more severe sentences for this reason also.

The guy could quite legitimately have taken things slower, waited a period of time and arranged to pursue the relationship legally. That he hasn't shows simple lust (anyone who thinks this is platonic is deluded).

Like us all he's going to have to take responsibility for his weapons-grade stupidity.

grimm · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:28

Burnsy2023 said:
IMO, this is completely dependent on whether they've had sex. That changes things.

Is that because of his job, or is that to do with his age?

If it's his age, at what age do you draw the line where it's acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old girl? 16? 18? 21? 25?

If it's his job, would you be saying the same thing if it was just a random 30 year old bloke?

PiKe · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:33

His job put the two together though, it wouldn't have happened with a random 30 year old bloke.

Also if found and asked if they've had sex, they could just lie?

LOAM · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:34

grimm said:
Is that because of his job, or is that to do with his age?

Its to do with her age, not his.

grimm said:
If it's his age, at what age do you draw the line where it's acceptable to have sex with a 15 year old girl? 16? 18? 21? 25?

Under UK law its never acceptable.

grimm · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:46

LOAM said:
Its to do with her age, not his.

Under UK law its never acceptable.

We know what the law is, there's no need to keep bringing that up.

What does "acceptable" mean in this case?

It's like we know that when we're in a 30 zone it's against the law to go over 30, but people still do it and get away with it. Socially and morally this is acceptable is it not? I'v never seen someone get out of a car and berate another driver for driving too fast. I suppose this example could be likened to someone doing 80 in a 30 zone, in which case they would probably be banned from driving assuming they didn't kill anyone or damage property, not sent to prison.

There are THOUSANDS of girls who are sexually active whilst underage. This is acknowledged by even the health profession who provide them with contraception. A significant percentage of those will be having sex with men who are 16 and above. You are suggesting that because the law says so that all the men involved should be locked up, which is completely irrational and unworkable.

PiKe · 26 Sep 2012 at 11:48

It's not acceptable because A) He is in a position of trust and B) He's potentially having sex with a minor.

Majority of under-age sex is probably with boys who aren't much older than themselves (there's no public figures so we're just surmising), the main thing that's brought this to the media is the fact he's a teacher and that the school appear completely incompetent to deal with this as the relationship has been going on for some months now and they've done absolutely nothing about it.