Missing girl 15, runs off with Maths teacher.

[Richie]

... and condemn him and paint him as a grooming paedophile before due diligence has been carried out.

That's the thing, he isn't even that but the media hype all this "paedo-mania" to absurd levels.

How many times have you seen a girl and think "nice" only to realise, as you get closer or she turns around or someone actually tells you, that she is 15/16 and you feel slightly embarrassed and guilty? (hell I feel guilty if she is under 22 these days!!). Ultimately this "girl" I speak of appears to be a grown woman as she has the physical characteristics of one yet you berate yourself for what? Your natural instincts and just hope no one saw you looking?!

Any guy that denies this has ever happened (or ever would happen) is a liar IMHO or he doesn't get outside very much. Yet some of these very people are berating this guy for "fancying" this girl.

Is it wrong that he did anything about it? Yes but let's not kid ourselves on and confuse him for some predatory paedophile.

This is completely different from someone sexually attracted to an actual girl i.e. pre-pubescent. That is just... well, weird.



I thought a few time about pressing "submit reply" after typing this due to what some people might think and also jump to conclusions about it. I can only hope people read it with an open and honest mind and grasp what I am trying to say...

 

[LOAM]

Assuming they are still together in 15 years and she is 30 and he is 45, how would you view it?

That's such a stupid question because the age difference isn't the issue. The issue is purely that she is legally a minor and was in his care at school.

 

[Ahleckz]

Regardless of whether she went under her own free will or not, the Teacher has abused a position of trust. The evidence is clear in the fact they have absconded together and that they have been conducting an inappropriate relationship.

He abused his position because even if the Girl moves to initiate an intimate relationship he is bound by the ethical guidelines of his position to refuse any such advances regardless of his personal feelings, the Girl is 15 and therefore under the age of consent and even if she was over the age of consent the Teachers position would still make it unethical to pursue such a relationship with his student.

He doesn't have to coerce the Girl to be guilty of unethical and inappropriate conduct.

The ethical argument is, as another poster said, quite subjective. I've stated, that he shouldn't have done what he has but I disagree that he's abused his position of being a teacher. He's patently done something wrong, and he should be challenged on this. However, I think it's wrong to call him a monster and call for him being locked up until we know further facts.

I suppose I'm just calling for the proverbial pitchforks to be placed back in the shed and to lay off the media sensationalist reporting to ensure he gets a fair trial.

This.

That it happened, and not the circumstances, is completion of the offence (abduction, possibly sexual offences if it transpires there is that element to it too) in Law.

Legally it only matters that he reciprocated these advances, or initiated them. Whether they "are in love", "both wanted to do it", or whatever is academic (no pun intended).

I know the law, ta.

 

[Ahleckz]

That's the thing, he isn't even that but the media hype all this "paedo-mania" to absurd levels.

How many times have you seen a girl and think "nice" only to realise, as you get closer or she turns around or someone actually tells you, that she is 15/16 and you feel slightly embarrassed and guilty? (hell I feel guilty if she is under 22 these days!!). Ultimately this "girl" I speak of appears to be a grown woman as she has the physical characteristics of one yet you berate yourself for what? Your natural instincts and just hope no one saw you looking?!

Any guy that denies this has ever happened (or ever would happen) is a liar IMHO or he doesn't get outside very much. Yet some of these very people are berating this guy for "fancying" this girl.

Is it wrong that he did anything about it? Yes but let's not kid ourselves on and confuse him for some predatory paedophile.

This is completely different from someone sexually attracted to an actual girl i.e. pre-pubescent. That is just... well, weird.



I thought a few time about pressing "submit reply" after typing this due to what some people might think and also jump to conclusions about it. I can only hope people read it with an open and honest mind and grasp what I am trying to say...

I agree with what you say.

Hell, one of my students I thought was quite attractive. Looked at her age on my register and quickly moved on! To clarify, she was 16 and Italian.

 

[Castiel]

The ethical argument is, as another poster said, quite subjective. I've stated, that he shouldn't have done what he has but I disagree that he's abused his position of being a teacher. He's patently done something wrong, and he should be challenged on this. However, I think it's wrong to call him a monster and call for him being locked up until we know further facts.

I suppose I'm just calling for the proverbial pitchforks to be placed back in the shed and to lay off the media sensationalist reporting to ensure he gets a fair trial.

In our society it is not subjective as it is a clear violation of the Teacher-Student relationship and the expected ethical position that Teachers in our society are held up to observe. Clearly he is not necessarily some sexual predator (15 year old girls can be attractive and mature enough to be considered Women, although in our society they are given legal protections as appearances can be deceptive), but that doesn't detract from the unethical and illegal nature of what he has done. Just because she is sexually mature and he feels an attraction to her doesn't mean he should pursue it or that he has not abused his position of trust in doing so.

Ethically even if the Girl was 18 or 21, the Teacher has still abused his position and acted unethically by pursuing a relationship with a student, the fact that she is also a minor and cannot legally give her consent only exacerbates the situation further.

 

[grimm]

That's such a stupid question because the age difference isn't the issue. The issue is purely that she is legally a minor and was in his care at school.

It's not a stupid question, that's possibly where this couple might be in 15 years time. There are plenty of couples out there with that sort of age gap.

If they were 17 and 32 (which will be in 2 years, not a very long time at all), this wouldn't even make it into the local paper.

Yes, I agree, there is the issue of the law and the duty of care, but that is just red tape really. The laws are very arbitrary and not always appropriate for all scenarios.

 

[Richie]

I agree with what you say.

Hell, one of my students I thought was quite attractive. Looked at her age on my register and quickly moved on! To clarify, she was 16 and Italian.

See, even you felt the need to "clarify" what you were saying so people don't think you are some weirdo, such is the mindset of the public these days .... Also the reason for the last paragraph of my post.... It's bloody annoying

 

[Xordium]

It's not a stupid question, that's possibly where this couple might be in 15 years time.

Which is in 15 years when the development is very different. Your logic is entirely faulty because it would then justify a 15 year abusing a 5 year old - well what would happen if they were still together in 50 years - I mean 10 years is nothing then is it.

 

[LOAM]

It's not a stupid question, that's possibly where this couple might be in 15 years time. There are plenty of couples out there with that sort of age gap.

If they were 17 and 32 (which will be in 2 years, not a very long time at all), this wouldn't even make it into the local paper.

Yes, I agree, there is the issue of the law and the duty of care, but that is just red tape really. The laws are very arbitrary and not always appropriate for all scenarios.

See Castiels and Xordium posts above.

 

[robgmun]

II am sure the relationship is 50/50, in fact I have no doubt about that. The trouble I have with it is they couldn't wait the maximum of 12 months so this wouldn't be an issue.

You have to ask yourself, what has happened to make a 30 year old man through away his life, career and possibly face criminal charges for the sake of a few months?

I know he was married not all that low ago and it has been alleged by neighbors and people close to him that he has had many private and public outbursts and rants that have been noticed by others.

I would worry that it is a possibility that he is not entirely of sound mind at the moment.

I think this post is the most spot on so far. I'm really interested in just how far off her 16th birthday was. As if i was in position i would have quit being a teacher a couple of months before her 16th. Wait until the day after her birthday and then run off.

The fact he didn't even think about that shows he a very naive idiot and now will go to jail for a couple of years. By which time she would have found someone else. He seriously shot himself in the foot for the rest of his life.

 

[Durzel]

That's the thing, he isn't even that but the media hype all this "paedo-mania" to absurd levels.

How many times have you seen a girl and think "nice" only to realise, as you get closer or she turns around or someone actually tells you, that she is 15/16 and you feel slightly embarrassed and guilty? (hell I feel guilty if she is under 22 these days!!). Ultimately this "girl" I speak of appears to be a grown woman as she has the physical characteristics of one yet you berate yourself for what? Your natural instincts and just hope no one saw you looking?!

Any guy that denies this has ever happened (or ever would happen) is a liar IMHO or he doesn't get outside very much. Yet some of these very people are berating this guy for "fancying" this girl.

Is it wrong that he did anything about it? Yes but let's not kid ourselves on and confuse him for some predatory paedophile.

This is completely different from someone sexually attracted to an actual girl i.e. pre-pubescent. That is just... well, weird.



I thought a few time about pressing "submit reply" after typing this due to what some people might think and also jump to conclusions about it. I can only hope people read it with an open and honest mind and grasp what I am trying to say...

I agree, BUT it's still irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

The law has to work in absolutes, because otherwise it is unworkable. A judge will ultimately decide the level of punishment dependant on mitigating factors, etc but fundamentally what this guy has done is - according to the laws in the U.K - illegal. It's really as simple as that.

The problem with what you're saying in principal is that if you say "15 is close enough to 16", then where do you draw the line? As soon as you make the legal boundaries fuzzy you've created a climate where a 14 year old that happens (or appears) to be mature enough is also fair game. Same with 13 year olds, and so on. Where do you draw the line? The answer is you don't - because in saying "15 is probably ok" you've destroyed the line.

That's why laws work in absolutes, and typically follow the general publicly held opinion on ethics and moral standards. The guy has committed at least one offence, and will be charged/trialed for it. What the girl says might affect his punishment, but it is quite possible it will be disregarded since the basic principal is that she is not old enough to give informed consent.

 

[Craig R]

That's the thing, he isn't even that but the media hype all this "paedo-mania" to absurd levels.

How many times have you seen a girl and think "nice" only to realise, as you get closer or she turns around or someone actually tells you, that she is 15/16 and you feel slightly embarrassed and guilty? (hell I feel guilty if she is under 22 these days!!). Ultimately this "girl" I speak of appears to be a grown woman as she has the physical characteristics of one yet you berate yourself for what? Your natural instincts and just hope no one saw you looking?!

Any guy that denies this has ever happened (or ever would happen) is a liar IMHO or he doesn't get outside very much. Yet some of these very people are berating this guy for "fancying" this girl.

Is it wrong that he did anything about it? Yes but let's not kid ourselves on and confuse him for some predatory paedophile.

This is completely different from someone sexually attracted to an actual girl i.e. pre-pubescent. That is just... well, weird.



I thought a few time about pressing "submit reply" after typing this due to what some people might think and also jump to conclusions about it. I can only hope people read it with an open and honest mind and grasp what I am trying to say...

That's exactly it though. In such situations normal guys feel embarassed and guilty when they realise the girl is so young.

This chap just bashed on regardless, knowing full well she was underage.

 

[Subliminal Aura]

He seriously shot himself in the foot for the rest of his life.

Exactly the same conclusion me the the mrs came to yesterday. In all fairness I feel sorry for him (what a dumb ass )

On the other hand the girl will happily get on with her life despite the outcome

 

[grimm]

Which is in 15 years when the development is very different. Your logic is entirely faulty because it would then justify a 15 year abusing a 5 year old - well what would happen if they were still together in 50 years - I mean 10 years is nothing then is it.

You've completely missed my point unfortunately. I'm saying that there is potentially nothing wrong with the relationship and that it could last. If they get past these initial hurdles then there is really no problem at all assuming it is all consensual. If they get a few months or years down the line it becomes perfectly acceptable. The line that has been drawn by the people who make the laws is possibly too arbitrary.

This type of thing happens frequently anyway, this is only being sensationalised by the media because he is her teacher.

 

[Xordium]

This chap just bashed on regardless, knowing full well she was underage.

 

[Xordium]

You've completely missed my point unfortunately. I'm saying that there is potentially nothing wrong with the relationship and that it could last. If they get past these initial hurdles then there is really no problem at all assuming it is all consensual. If they get a few months or years down the line it becomes perfectly acceptable. The line that has been drawn by the people who make the laws is possibly too arbitrary.

This type of thing happens frequently anyway, this is only being sensationalised by the media because he is her teacher.

And people who are in positions of power over minors have a higher responsibility placed upon them for a reason. And this is the reason whether actively or passively he has abused a position of responsibility. The age limit is there for a reason it's the law - he broke it.

You walk past a car with the door open and the key in - you say hmm nice car I could just take that you know - and yet you do not.

 

[PiKe]

Just as much chance he's the victim here, I mean, she could threaten him with telling the school he's done stuff to her, just to get her own way?

"Take me to France"
"No"
"I'll tell Mr x you touched me"
"*Books tickets*"

I know it's highly unlikely, but there's still a possibility!

 

[Theophany]

I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound as creepy as it does, but it does. You creepy so and so!

I definitely did...

 

[Richie]

I agree, BUT it's still irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

The law has to work in absolutes, because otherwise it is unworkable. A judge will ultimately decide the level of punishment dependant on mitigating factors, etc but fundamentally what this guy has done is - according to the laws in the U.K - illegal. It's really as simple as that.

The problem with what you're saying in principal is that if you say "15 is close enough to 16", then where do you draw the line? As soon as you make the legal boundaries fuzzy you've created a climate where a 14 year old that happens (or appears) to be mature enough is also fair game. Same with 13 year olds, and so on. Where do you draw the line? The answer is you don't - because in saying "15 is probably ok" you've destroyed the line.

That's why laws work in absolutes, and typically follow the general publicly held opinion on ethics and moral standards. The guy has committed at least one offence, and will be charged/trialed for it. What the girl says might affect his punishment, but it is quite possible it will be disregarded since the basic principal is that she is not old enough to give informed consent.

Oh I agree with you, I was just putting a view across one which, IMHO, most if not all guys have had experience of.

Laws work in absolutes as they have to or there would be no law but unfortunately life does now... It would be easier if it did.

That's exactly it though. In such situations normal guys feel embarassed and guilty when they realise the girl is so young.

This chap just bashed on regardless, knowing full well she was underage.

True, he did.

Why DO we feel embarrassed about it though? Is it wrong for a guy to be attracted to a physically mature girl OR, is it more that we feel guilty because of what other people might think of the guy? Or is it a bit of both?

 

[Xordium]

Just as much chance he's the victim here, I mean, she could threaten him with telling the school he's done stuff to her, just to get her own way?

"Take me to France"
"No"
"I'll tell Mr x you touched me"
"*Books tickets*"

I know it's highly unlikely, but there's still a possibility!

If that was the case he would follow the established protocols for when those accusations are made not commit a crime.