Arsenal's defence - reactions so far?

Adam_101

Adam_101

Adam_101

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Soooo, Arsenal's defence so far this season (with the few games played so far), what are your reactions?

With Bouldy in as No:2 and his experience we do look tighter but the goals conceded through set pieces etc need to be worked on.

So how to you see it panning out for our defence as the season goes on?

All the Arsenal haters out there, please no swear words here just honest comparisons/reactions!:cool:
 
There has been an obvious improvement.

Its like we have GG Arsenal at the back and AW Arsenal going forward.

Not a bad combo. We need a world class striker however before people get carried away and call us title contenters.

With RVP upfront, would would have been in there with an outside chance.
 
The main problem for me is the relationship the keepers have with out defence - this needs to be fixed. We need more commanding/ dominant figures which is why i would like to see Mertesacker play some more
 
opethdisciple said:
There has been an obvious improvement.

Its like we have GG Arsenal at the back and AW Arsenal going forward.

Not a bad combo. We need a world class striker however before people get carried away and call us title contenters.

With RVP upfront, would would have been in there with an outside chance.
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Agree, does have that GG feel, but improvements are needed as is the continuation of the steps already made.

Gotta say Girouds miss late on, if RVP was on the end of that or Henry would have been a different story.:)
 
birdysaver said:
The main problem for me is the relationship the keepers have with out defence - this needs to be fixed. We need more commanding/ dominant figures which is why i would like to see Mertesacker play some more
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True, I was thinking that same thing, Mertesacker playing would have been abit more solid imo today.
 
Anyone who thinks there has been an improvement in the back four is deluded. Boulds reaction has supposedly been "wait till we're really tested" when asked about the defence.

Mertesacker has been awful, terrible at all set pieces, and blatant penalty on Suarez , a couple others, the ridiculous lunging tackle that Montpelcantshoot messed up the chance from.

Gibbs can't defend, full stop, Jenks has been improving since he joined, but his biggest improvement has come from not playing a completely lazy **** infront of him and the biggest reason the TEAM looks more solid is no Song/Walcott(for the most part).

The same mistakes are present, the same weaknesses, terrible defensively from all set pieces all season. We conceded a ridiculous number of absolutely golden chances against Pool and Montpellier, strikers having a crap game isn't the same as having a solid defence.

AS always what exactly has improved defensively, rather than parrot what pundits or commentators say during/after a game. A bunch of websites are raving about Chelsea's fantastic performance and Arsenal being not bad today..... some people live in a different world and just tell the story their fans want to hear.

IS Gibbs better defensively than last year, not a chance, has Kos improved, certainly not, has Mertesacker improved.... useless at set pieces, immobile, got away with but commited a couple clear penalty worthy fouls. Verm... not at his best but as usual is sold out all game long by a missing left back.

What were Arsenal's biggest weaknesses, set pieces... have we improved one iota there, no. Has the personel improved, no, has the midfield including our two wingers covered the defences ass a hell of a lot more this year, sure. Podolski/AOC do a heck of a lot more defensive work than Gervinho/Walcott combo.
 
The perceived "improvement" is a complete non-event.

People take the pee but DM is absolutely spot on.

It was being portrayed like Arsenal never looked at defensive coaching before Bould was carried shoulder-high into the training ground and immediately fixed everything!
 
The percieved improvement happened because we had 3 whole clean sheets in a row... 3, against Sunderland, crap, Stoke, crap, Liverpool, crap. Since the 3 clean sheets in a row we've gone 5 games in a row without a clean sheet.

Sunderland were just poor, Stoke didn't even try to attack, Liverpool had Suarez, and 19 shots and walked through out defence like it wasn't there. Suarez being Arsenal's best defender really isn't a great statement of how good our defence was.

People really go daft at the beginning of the season, you could play Utd, City, Chelsea, and Spurs at the start of one season, lose 4 games, concede 20 goals, score 2. The next season you play Wolves, Blackburn, Villa, Ready, win 4 games, score 20, concede 2, and fans will go mental over the great start and a much better team, improved defence, etc, etc, etc.

Hell the number of Arsenal fans who STILL laughably talk up our improved second half of last season saving our season because of that terrible start is insane. We scored more points in the FIRST HALF of last season, even with a horrendous injury problem and Wenger's lack of transfers sorted till after the Utd game.
 
jaybee said:
The set piece thing annoys me because it's mickey mouse stuff. Arsenal were unlucky against Chelsea. Two weak goals conceded.
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Also specifically, it wasn't mickey mouse stuff, we aren't good at set pieces, we haven't been good at set pieces. We weren't unlucky, we were abysmal with barely a single player being good against Chelsea. This was a poor Chelsea, not a top of their form Chelsea, how many times did we see Hazard show his stuff, not at all, and it wasn't pressure, he was messing up simply 5 yard passes, so was Mata. Mata is getting loads of praise because he was involved in the goals but outside of set pieces he also was messing up passes and generally being very very weak on the ball. Torres was one of their best players, constantly harrassing our players, winning the ball, holding it up but ultimately as usual a bit rubbish at the final ball.

Either way the freekick for the second goal came because we were defensively out of position, not ready for an attack with a missing fullback and a CB that decided it was better to concede a freekick than give them a real chance to shoot.... why he thinks that is a better option I really don't know given how crap we are at set pieces. A better defence wouldn't have been caught out of position, with no cover and forced to concede the freekick.
 
I think Arsenal's defence is largely as it was last season when the given personnel are available. Last season it is well documented that Arsenal conceded a lot of goals but we also played quite a few matches with a makeshift back four i.e. the likes of Santos, Coquelin, Djourou, Miquel, Traore etc playing. For example the 8 conceded against MU we had a backline of Traore, Koscielny, Djourou, Jenkinson of which only Kos would be first choice, with an inexperienced DM to protect them (Coquelin), and Jenks got sent off as well. This season, on the left Vermaelen and Gibbs have only missed one game between them, and at least Mertesacker has been fit to give cover in Koscielny's absence. Gibbs is an average LB at best but he is better than Traore. At RB, Jenkinson has the benefit of another year's experience under his belt compared to last season where he was a teenager who'd been playing non-league just months before suddenly thrown to the lions at OT.

The 'Steve Bould effect' I think is maybe a case of people seeing the number 4 (not many goals conceded) and assuming that it was formulated by 2+2 (Steve Bould's defensive coaching) whereas it might be 3+1 or 4+0 instead (some other reason). The only thing that has been highlighted in the media that we can have some certainty about is maybe his influence on the corner routine with Mertesacker doing near post flick-ons.... which has little to do with the defence.

Funny thing about the Torres goal yesterday was for me I was more concerned about the fact David Luiz was allowed to run in completely unmarked right in the centre of goal, I actually think it was a REALLY well taken goal by Torres, he was being grappled and hooked it in with aplomb.
 
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Agree with the comments above, especially about us perceiving an improvement. But for me already (not thinking about set pieces as we obviously need to improve there) it seems we are slightly tighter which is a good start.

However AW the defending against Chelsea was horrible and simple things need improving. Its very very very early days so far and come end of the season would be good to see how we have done!
 
Koscielny got it all wrong for the first goal, but nine times out of ten he doesn't mess that up. Far more concerning for me is Vermaelen's repeated concession of needless free kicks in dangerous areas.

He's done it three times this season where we've conceded a goal, and there have probably been other times he's done it where we've successfully defended the set piece too.

I like Vermaelen but personally my go-to pairing would be Koscielny and Mertesacker whenever possible. Making Vermaelen captain probably complicates that, though.
 
Mertesacker is 1/10th the defender Vermaelen is, again Mertesacker made CLEAR fouls that weren't given, amongst them two penalties. Referee's not giving a decision is not the same as the player not making the foul.

Vermaelen made the tackle because the left back was missing and we were vunerable, knowing Torres's form and our ability at set pieces... he shouldn't of but in a "normal" team you would prefer the set piece every time, its how players are taught.

As for Koscielny, 9 out of 10 times, really, he was bullied by Montpellier at set pieces, and he played all last year where we were completely gash from set pieces. 9 out of 10 times he gets that right.... no he really doesn't. I like the guy but we're terrible at set pieces full stop and Koscielny is constantly involved in poor defending from set pieces.

A left back who is ever in the right place, or a coach who enforces holding a line, and in general the entire game was poor all around, Arteta was probably the best player on the pitch but didn't have his best game and had very little help as Podolski/Santi/Diaby then Ramsey were all poor and of little help defensively in this game.

Its easy to point the blame at the defender who deals with the threat, but the threat usually happens because of other mistakes. We've constantly blamed cb's for years, while its been fullbacks and DM's leaving them utterly exposed.

Koscielny himself is pretty prone to the same mistakes, infact, in the first season if you remember he usually played the left side CB position and was very prone to lunging tackles in similar situations... why, because Arsenal in general haven't been great positionally for years, and in the past season left back has been FAR weaker than right back so that is the side we get targetted on.

Mertesacker only "suits" the team better because teams target the left back position(where our left back so frequently isn't) and Vermaelen has pace while Mertesacker sits WAY back and tries to deal with the ball when it comes into the box rather than earlier before the ball comes in.. Mertesacker makes more mistakes in the box, Verm gives away more tackles earlier in the move.

A better left back would help defensively, would give the defence more cover and stop leaving the CB's so completely exposed.

The penalty vs Montpellier was weak as hell, but it was Gibbs completely missing a run in behind and once again Verm having to race across to try and cut out a cross that led to it.

One was less than stellar against Chelsea, he didn't need to rush out for the first one, but deciding he gives away too many freekicks when the fault is mostly a missing left back is daft.

Of course, Verm at left back and Mertesacker would be better, slightly, because poop as Mert is Gibbs is just hopeless.

The really irritating thing about Gibbs is his delivery is shocking, his crossing is just woeful. If you get caught out loads but like Baines put in stunning cross after cross and end up with 10+ assists a season and a bunch of goals that is one thing. When you get caught out of position because you're at the other end being completely unable to put in a dangerous ball.... its a joke.

Also no, two flukey BAD crosses being turned in by a shockingly poor defence in one game doesn't mean its worth it.
 
I agree with you that centre backs have copped undeserved flak for what should be a general collective responsibility to defending. It was of course worse last season with Song in the side, because he was far less disciplined than Arteta is in that role.

Can't say I agree at all on the respective merits of the three centre backs, but each to their own! What I will say is that I think when they're on their game, we have a good selection to choose from. Even Djourou is no clown when he's on form (see 2010/11 when Vermaelen was out injured), and he's firmly fourth choice. They can all improve but they're all decent players. Mertesacker showed what he's good at vs Man City, and Koscielny was largely very good last season. He's looked a bit rusty this year, though.

While I agree Gibbs' crossing is not the best, I think he dovetails quite well with Podolski. He surely offers more in the final third than Clichy did, just as IMO Jenkinson offers more in the final third than Sagna.
 
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