Police search for missing 5 year old in Wales

anything I don't mind · 2 Oct 2012 at 12:41

I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing children of that age to play outside unsupervised. I was outside playing at that age in the street and in the fields at the back of the house. It is these sorts of rare stories that are given a lot of coverage in the media that leads to all the fear with regards to letting children play outside.

mothermachine · 2 Oct 2012 at 12:43

groen said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing children of that age to play outside unsupervised. I was outside playing at that age in the street and in the fields at the back of the house.

I'm guessing you don't have kids? I'm also guessing that you're talking about quite some time ago?

lookitsjonno · 2 Oct 2012 at 12:46

upsetting as my daughter is the same age, hope she's ok, they are so innocent and harmless at that age

Dugganator · 2 Oct 2012 at 12:47

jaybee said:
This child was not on her own, not that I condone her being out at that time either.

Has the news changed/been updated. I thought she was out with other children and last seen on her own getting into a van while the other children watched it happen?

We cant say that just because there might have been other children around to say she wasn't on her own. The end result is did being with other children stop this happening or not. Clearly it didn't.

If people want to say what are the chances of it happening then fair enough its a valid point but what would have been the chances of it happening if she was playing in her house, back garden or with an adult supervising? Its going to be a lot lower isn't it.

Its not about living in a nanny state and thinking there are monsters on every corner its just about looking after your children to the best level available to you. Five year girl out side at any time of day on her own or with other children is wrong. Other children regardless of age wont have the same ability and attention of an adult.

mothermachine · 2 Oct 2012 at 12:47

groen said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing children of that age to play outside unsupervised. I was outside playing at that age in the street and in the fields at the back of the house. It is these sorts of rare stories that are given a lot of coverage in the media that leads to all the fear with regards to letting children play outside.

It's not the media coverage that creates the fear, it's the actual events themselves...... if these things didn't happen there would be no reason to fear them. They might be rare but they do happen. And they're absolutely horrendous when they do.

We're not talking about "I don't let my kids watch soap operas because they're full of sex and rap music and they're bad influences". We're talking about actions that you take to protect your children from actual real physical harm.

Being in a car crash is extremely unlikely and rare. But would you allow your kids to jump around without seatbelts on? I hope not. Just because something is rare and unlikely to happen doesn't mean you shouldn't take it seriously.

anything I don't mind · 2 Oct 2012 at 12:49

I don't have children. 1990 i was 6 in Macclesfield was allowed out unsupervised in the street. In some areas i would agree that it may not be a good idea but if you live in a small town or a quiet area like i did in Macclesfield then i see no problem with it.

Even when i went to SA which is meant to be rape capital of the world i was allowed out unsupervised. It is just fear induced by the media that over covers these sorts of rare incidents and makes all parents scared. Which contributes to the problem to be honest.

I am not telling you what to do with you children, you can do what you want. I am just saying that the fear is unfounded, just look at the statistics. children will grow up fearing the world thinking that if they are not with their parents strangers want to kidnap them.

mothermachine · 2 Oct 2012 at 12:59

groen said:
I don't have children. 1990 i was 6 in Macclesfield was allowed out unsupervised in the street. In some areas i would agree that it may not be a good idea but if you live in a small town or a quiet area like i did in Macclesfield then i see no problem with it.

Even when i went to SA which is meant to be rape capital of the world i was allowed out unsupervised. It is just fear induced by the media that over covers these sorts of rare incidents and makes all parents scared. Which contributes to the problem to be honest.

I am not telling you what to do with you children, you can do what you want. I am just saying that the fear is unfounded, just look at the statistics. children will grow up fearing the world thinking that if they are not with their parents strangers want to kidnap them.

This is nonsense to be honest. I said in my previous post that it's not what the media reports about this stuff that causes fear, it's the actual events themselves. "Contributes to the problem"? Are you saying that people worrying about their kids is somehow adding to their chances of being abducted/harmed? Technically that's what you said. I'm hoping you didn't mean that.

The idea that we would be bringing kids up thinking they can't go anywhere or do anything without their parents is total rubbish too. What I'm saying is that there's a clear and obvious difference between letting your kids play in the street supervised during the day and letting them play outside in the street unsupervised at night. One is still risky but pretty much just fine. The other is totally stupid. I'd rather my kids grew up to be ever so slightly overcautious about things than to be totally lax and verging on reckless.

The fear is not unfounded. I'm pretty sure that if you do ever have kids your view on this will change.

antijoke · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:15

groen said:
I don't have children. 1990 i was 6 in Macclesfield was allowed out unsupervised in the street. In some areas i would agree that it may not be a good idea but if you live in a small town or a quiet area like i did in Macclesfield then i see no problem with it.

Even when i went to SA which is meant to be rape capital of the world i was allowed out unsupervised. It is just fear induced by the media that over covers these sorts of rare incidents and makes all parents scared. Which contributes to the problem to be honest.

I am not telling you what to do with you children, you can do what you want. I am just saying that the fear is unfounded, just look at the statistics. children will grow up fearing the world thinking that if they are not with their parents strangers want to kidnap them.

So if I was to let my child paly in the street tonight on his own (he is 7) and he gets abducted would you think it was ok (as it's something I did as a child in the 80's), or would it be stupid of me in light of the recent snatching of a child in Wales?

Would the press/UK poplulation be on my side or would I be villified for such a stupid act?

SpeedFreak · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:18

anticonscience said:
So if I was to let my child paly in the street tonight on his own (he is 7) and he gets abducted would you think it was ok (as it's something I did as a child in the 80's), or would it be stupid of me in light of the recent snatching of a child in Wales?

I don't see how the recent snatching in Wales has anything to do with what may or may not happen in Stratford upon Avon.

antijoke · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:21

Well surely it should make parents think about such things and the safety of their children being out unsupervised on a dark evening?

That was the point I was trying to make.

SpeedFreak · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:28

I'm not having a go, it's just that a child getting snatched shouldn't be the spur for parents to be a bit cautious, you should be careful anyhow. A one in a million abduction doesn't especially worry me, I am more concerned with cars and accidents.

Richie · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:29

I always like the "do you have kids" question as the person being asked cannot win either way:

A - Do you have kids?
B - No
A - Then you don't know!

X - Do you have kids?
Y - Yes
X - Then you should know better!

Danthus · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:30

Don't that stats tend to show it will be a family member or at least someone known to the family?

mothermachine · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:33

Richie said:
I always like the "do you have kids" question as the person being asked cannot win either way:

A - Do you have kids?
B - No
A - Then you don't know!

X - Do you have kids?
Y - Yes
X - Then you should know better!

And what's wrong with this?

If you're putting your opinion out there on something that you can't possibly fully appreciate given your current circumstances then you should be able to accept that your opinion is not going to be as rounded as someone else.

It really is the case that if you don't have kids your priorities in life are completely different than someone who does. I've only been a father for 1 year but I can tell you that it completely changed my view of the world and how I move around in it. A year ago I would consider leaving kids outside on their own unsupervised at dark at night to be silly. Now I consider it to be something that someone should be seriously punished for allowing. I can see the argument from both sides now.

And this isn't about "winning" the argument. It's a debate.

County · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:34

mothermachine said:
And what's wrong with this?

If you're putting your opinion out there on something that you can't possibly fully appreciate given your current circumstances then you should be able to accept that your opinion is not going to be as rounded as someone else.

It really is the case that if you don't have kids your priorities in life are completely different than someone who does. I've only been a father for 1 year but I can tell you that it completely changed my view of the world and how I move around in it. A year ago I would consider leaving kids outside on their own unsupervised at dark at night to be silly. Now I consider it to be something that someone should be seriously punished for allowing. I can see the argument from both sides now.

And this isn't about "winning" the argument. It's a debate.

+1

Dugganator · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:34

SpeedFreak said:
I'm not having a go, it's just that a child getting snatched shouldn't be the spur for parents to be a bit cautious, you should be careful anyhow. A one in a million abduction doesn't especially worry me, I am more concerned with cars and accidents.

Completely right. There a million things that can happen to a child unsupervised. As parents you should do your best to limit as many of these as possible. Things can still happen when parents are around but the rate of them happening goes down massively.

Diagro · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:38

I blame her parents wholly, She should NOT have been unsupervised, she should have been taught not to talk to random strangers and then get in random strangers cars/vans.

Its is her parents fault for not doing the job that was given to them when they got pregnant.

Some people may not agree with me, But if you do a good job and keep an eye on your child at all times like a good parent then the children wont vanish....

They should be banged up for 2-3 years if that child is found dead.

County · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:41

Diagro said:
I blame her parents wholly, She should NOT have been unsupervised, she should have been taught not to talk to random strangers and then get in random strangers cars/vans.

Its is her parents fault for not doing the job that was given to them when they got pregnant.

Some people may not agree with me, But if you do a good job and keep an eye on your child at all times like a good parent then the children wont vanish....

They should be banged up for 2-3 years if that child is found dead.

Troll?

If not, do you believe she actual got herself into the strangers van/car?

anything I don't mind · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:42

Well i could argue that parents are emotionally attached to their children so this affects their judgement. While someone whose opinion is not altered by emotional attachment has a more objective look at the risks associated with letting children play outside in the street. It is not exactly a secret and you don't have to have children to understand responsibility that looking after children involves. My mom always used to say that she had her eye on me and when i was young always used to tell me not to go too far. But if you are worried about abductions it could happen at any time. There is definitely a miscalculated risk associated with allowing children to play outside and how it contributes to the problem is because it tends to discourage social interactions in general. It is not just "you" who is fearful and keeps their children inside it is all the parents in the neighbourhood and this leads to less children playing outside and less chance of your children being supervised by other parents or by older children due to the fear etc.

How far is this over zealous protectiveness going these days, recently a case in the state a mom allowed her children to play at the park unsupervised and a neighbour called the police on her and she was arrested. She has since started a campaign called leave your kids at the park Tuesdays or something a long those lines. It realy is a sad state of society when you can't leave your kids at a park without fearing someone is going to kidnap them.

antijoke · 2 Oct 2012 at 13:44

Duggan said:
Completely right. There a million things that can happen to a child unsupervised. As parents you should do your best to limit as many of these as possible. Things can still happen when parents are around but the rate of them happening goes down massively.

And yet the parent of this child didn't take reasonable steps and everyone is saying, well I did when I was younger so why shouldn't they allow her to play out at night?

As a parent myself I take (like you said) every reasonable step to ensure they are safe, this involves not letting them play outside on a dark evening!

You would also hope (as I was trying to point out earlier) any parent who thinks it's ok for young children to be out on their own would think twice following this news.

County said:
Troll?

If not, do you believe she actual got herself into the strangers van/car?

Whenever I read the word troll it makes my blood boil, it's such a massively overused term now, it seems people use it when you have a different opinion to someone.