Who just saw BBc Watchdog with Virgin media?

[drizzy]

I'm going to explain why you're wrong on key points, and try to cut through the lies and misinformation you're keen on spreading. Specifically, this article was about the watchdog program, VM's advertising, and steps taken by the ASA which you seem to be contesting.

Secondly: They are doubling everyone's speeds.

Those already on 100Mb went to 120mb. Ergo your statement and VM's ad were incorrect. The ASA acted correctly.

Thirdly: It is the fastest broadband in the UK. BT fibre is only 80Mb/s IIRC. Virgin Media's current top package is 100Mb/s and will soon be 120Mb/s.

BT's FTTP is only in trials in about 5 locations. With another 5 or so planned in 2013.
Obviously there are faster ways of getting internet.

It simply isn't the fastest broadband in the UK. VM claimed that it was, without conditions. There are options that are faster, and while not widely available, are available in the UK. The ASA acted correctly. It is indisputable fact that they are not the fastest broadband in the UK, and you conceded this point yourself.

Finally:
Please explain why shouldn't they be allowed to call it fibre optic.

Because Virgin Media's CATV network is definitely and undeniably a fibre optically networked infrastructure.

Exchanges these days are connected to the rest of the phone network via fibre. If my last 200m is a copper phoneline (with VDSL2/ADSL/ISDN or even 56k modem for internet access), then this is not substantially different in not being fibre than my last 200m being copper coaxial cable and DOCSIS3 providing internet access.

None of these options should be allowed to be marketed as fibre.

It is not a difficult concept to understand.

So much misunderstanding, my head will explode trying to explain all these basic concepts.

Perhaps your head has already exploded

 

[Locky]

Please stop, you have no idea what you're on about, or just trolling?

All three you mentioned there are LLUd at the exchange and delivered via the POTS.

Since you clearly don't understand networking and internet delivery, I will explain what the above sentence means. That means the exchanges may be interconnected by fibre and their peering arrangements may be provided through fibre, but the data is fed to the customer over the plain old telephone service. Which is immediately a fundamentally **** method of delivery and completely incomparable and separate to the CATV (cable TV) network.

VM's local loops are fibre.

You don't know what the **** your on about either, my reply to you was to show how silly your reply was - is.

 

[Locky]

Exchanges these days are connected to the rest of the phone network via fibre. If my last 200m is a copper phoneline (with VDSL2/ADSL/ISDN or even 56k modem for internet access), then this is not substantially different in not being fibre than my last 200m being copper coaxial cable and DOCSIS3 providing internet access.

None of these options should be allowed to be marketed as fibre.

It is not a difficult concept to understand.

Nail head.

 

[Pottsey]

You contradict yourself in the same thread. 120 is not twice 100. Ergo your statement and VM's ad were incorrect. The ASA acted correctly.

He is wrong but he is not contradicting himself in that line. He was upgraded from 50mb to 100mb with the double promotion and later upgraded to 120mb.

The problem is Virgin who said everyone is getting double when only some people get double and some only get 20% extra speed.

 

[Ace Modder]

Asim.....

The VM connection is exactly the same as the new BT FTTC Connection.

Fibre optic cables up to the hubs. Then coax cable from the hub on residental estates to your house/modem.

I have been with Virgin for 10 years (originally blueyonder with cable, then ntlworld and eventually became VirginMedia) and I moved house 3 times during that period too. So I know what I'm talking about.

I have the 100MB connection on virgin media.

When I last moved house, my VM connection was fine, until I gamed. I had massive packet loss - this was due to the loads on the VM network, not any third party server load. (standard downloading was at full speed) After three engineer visits and still no fix, I then emailed the CEO of VM - within 3 days my packet loss dissapeared and happy again. Not sure what they fixed, but their was an engineer at my hub 2 days after i emailed.

 

[drizzy]

He is wrong but he is not contradicting himself in that line. He was upgraded from 50mb to 100mb with the double promotion and later upgraded to 120mb.

The problem is Virgin who said everyone is getting double when only some people get double and some only get 20% extra speed.

Ahh, probably got confused when trying to massquote.

In any event, as you say, those already on 100Mb only went to 120Mb.

 

[Nymins]

Asim.....

The VM connection is exactly the same as the new BT FTTC Connection.

Fibre optic cables up to the hubs. Then coax cable from the hub on residental estates to your house/modem.

They aren't exactly the same really. FTTC is copper the last stretch, and VM is coaxial. Coaxial shouldn't degrade as much as copper would over distances. VM deliver advertised speeds (talking without congestion, over-utilisation for examples sake) no matter what the distance, whereas with FTTC the distance from the cabinet does factor in.

 

[gareth170]

whats the point of all this arguing?

if your not happy with VM just leave them. all this arguing won't change anything tbh.

 

[Ace Modder]

Ah, I assumed FTTC was coax from the hub too.

So VM is better then.

To be honest I get a full download speed of 12MB/s 24/7 all days/time of the day.

I'm happy with that.

 

[Locky]

Thing is, from 2013, people with fttc will have the option of fibre overlay from the cab. Then there is vectoring and 30a profile, so both technology's are very good.

But currently both are NOT a fibre connection and BOTH should not be advertised as one tbh.

 

[#Chri5#]

But currently both are NOT a fibre connection and BOTH should not be avertised as one tbh.

Exactly.

Take a modern car with both electric motors and a petrol engine. That's not called an electric car, it's called a hybrid.

 

[ChrisD.]

Find another ISP in the UK that has the same number as over-utilization area's and royally ****** off customers posting all over their forums as Virgin has.

You can't.

/thread

 

[aln]

Find another ISP in the UK that has the same number as over-utilization area's and royally ****** off customers posting all over their forums as Virgin has.

You can't.

/thread

In fairness the majority of budget ISP using the ADSL network completely sucked too. The difference is, Virgin neither bills itself as a budget ISP, nor bills you as if it is one.

 

[Dist]

So ignoring FTTH at the moment, if both cable and FTTC keeps upgrading and going up in speed, what would be the maximum bandwidth of the two services? I would assume coax could handle better speeds, but just how much would be the maximum compared to just the 2 copper wires used for a phone line?

 

[asim18]

So ignoring FTTH at the moment, if both cable and FTTC keeps upgrading and going up in speed, what would be the maximum bandwidth of the two services? I would assume coax could handle better speeds, but just how much would be the maximum compared to just the 2 copper wires used for a phone line?

The cable EuroDOCSIS3 spec states you get 50Mb/s per channel, but they have no defined maximum number of channels.

My current 50Mb modem supports DOCSIS3 and it uses 4 channels. I think the 100 and 120Mb services use 8 channels. And that 1.5Gb/s trial probably used several dozen channels. The 8 Channels they currently commonly utilise can potentially handle 400Mb/s.

 

[Locky]

The max FTTC can go without fibre overlay is profile 30a @ 200mbs. You can line bond etc. Vectoring will help eliminate crosstalk to help connections achieve the max 200mbs most of the time.

 

[Nymins]

The max FTTC can go without fibre overlay is profile 30a @ 200mbs. You can line bond etc. Vectoring will help eliminate crosstalk to help connections achieve the max 200mbs most of the time.

Cost of overlay installation is a bit much though.

 

[Locky]

Cost of overlay installation is a bit much though.

Like I said, without fibre overlay, 200mbs is what the max FTTC can do.

 

[Nymins]

Like I said, without fibre overlay, 200mbs is what the max FTTC can do.

I was somewhat making a reference to your earlier post up a few about overlay, where it comes across as a viable option, when in actuality it isn't due to cost.

 

[Locky]

I was somewhat making a reference to your earlier post up a few about overlay, where it comes across as a viable option, when in actuality it isn't due to cost.

tbh costing for overlay from FTTC isn't out yet as far as I'm aware.