Weight Increasing - Not Gaining Muscle

Matutu · 30 Oct 2012 at 11:34

Hey Guys,

I am after abit of advice.

I currently train with a swimming club 6 days a week and this is 1.5 hours every morning of intense lap swimming. This is no breaks etc and pretty full on.

Now I also weight train 2 times a week upper/lower body split with a good personal trainer etc.

Now due to the amount of morning exercise my diet has always been abit of a odd one to calculate, plus adding in a hour walk with the dog etc then on weight lifting days I can be doing 1.5 hours of swimming, then walking the dog, then weight training for an hour. As I would like to gain some mass.

So I tried eating around 4200kcals per day for 8weeks and by the end I actually was 2lbs lighter.........

So now 3 weeks ago I started to eat 5000kcals per day, this has now left me 3 weeks later 2.5lbs heavier :S, although I dont look really any more muscular at all only maybe abit flabbier......

Is anyone able to offers some advice to how this happens? I understand I need to be eating more Kcals than I need to build the muscle, but why would my muscle not increase but fat increase lol.

Cheers guys.

Morba · 30 Oct 2012 at 11:42

Have you actually been measured properly?
You have a very active life, it would be best to be tested for body fat properly rather than just looking at yourself in the mirror. If fat is going up but muscle isn't then you aren't training weights enough.

What are your goals? swimming so much with such little focus on weights is counter productive to building mass tbh.

Matutu · 30 Oct 2012 at 11:45

More just by whats in the mirror.

Last time I had my BF taken it was at 8.5%. However that hasnt been done in quite a few months.

Well the swimming is obviously for Comps and Endurance (10km++) races etc. As for other goals it really to increase size, as Although my shoulders and legs are quite developed, the rest of my arms/chest are lacking etc.

Morba · 30 Oct 2012 at 11:51

What is your priority, swimming comps or gaining muscle?
The swimming is detrimental to your wanted muscle gain (in the short term), would extra lean mass be detrimental to your swimming?

MoNkeE · 30 Oct 2012 at 12:02

Not being nasty here at all but I've read your story on here before. If I remember correctly you, you were once fat, then anorexic guy, now you eat a crap tonne of food but you're also ridiculously active. From the pictures I saw of you, there still wasn't much on you at all even tho you lift weights and eat a lot; seems most the muscle is in your legs from cycling?

Problem you'll have is when you start eating enough food to bulk on, you'll put a lot on initially as you essentially fill out. When I was around 10% it really didn't take much for me to bulk, but once I got to like 13% it would slow down dramatically.

Also, having 5000cals a day is good if you know you're burning x amount a day as well. However on your rest days, you'll want to taper that a lot! And you need to have rest days if you want to bulk; you can't keep caining your body 7 days a week with such a ridiculous amount of cardio and still expect to put on decent muscle!

Mr-White · 30 Oct 2012 at 12:29

To summarise you're burning off all your calories with the cardio and it's not being used to build muscle.

MW

Begbie · 30 Oct 2012 at 13:12

You need to work out exactly (or very close to) how many calories your burning off.

Morba · 30 Oct 2012 at 13:18

Begbie said:
You need to work out exactly (or very close to) how many calories your burning off.

I'd say its about 4400 a day needed to maintain, judging by 4200 = losing and 5000 = gaining faster than the loss.

That's a lot of kcals, but then 90 mins of intense swimming is a big burner!

Matutu · 30 Oct 2012 at 13:34

Hey Guys,

MoNkeE - Yes you are correct I was a former fattie (21stone) and then a former anorexic etc, however most of my issues are behind me now

. In terms of caining my body 7 days a week I do make sure to have sunday of zero activity to recover, and cut out every other form of cardio work I can do allow for it.

Mr-White said:
To summarise you're burning off all your calories with the cardio and it's not being used to build muscle.

MW

Hence why I upped my calories to allow for this as I thought that would be able to do allow for the cardio and also the gain in muscle?

Begbie - Its quite hard to estimate the calories though as I have no idea how much swimming burns like that for 90mins.

Thanks again

MoNkeE · 30 Oct 2012 at 13:39

Hi mate. By now means was I implying that you are still having issues, I just thought it was best that everyone understands the changes your body has been through and the reason you eat so much, but train so much to almost counteract it.

What are your rest day calories like compared to your training days?

Begbie · 30 Oct 2012 at 13:53

Matutu said:
Hey Guys,

MoNkeE - Yes you are correct I was a former fattie (21stone) and then a former anorexic etc, however most of my issues are behind me now . In terms of caining my body 7 days a week I do make sure to have sunday of zero activity to recover, and cut out every other form of cardio work I can do allow for it.

Hence why I upped my calories to allow for this as I thought that would be able to do allow for the cardio and also the gain in muscle?

Begbie - Its quite hard to estimate the calories though as I have no idea how much swimming burns like that for 90mins.

Thanks again

Surely (correct me if its wrong) if you eat an 'exact' amount of calories for a month but lose/gain weight its possible to calculate how much your buring off.

Matutu · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:03

MoNkeE said:
Hi mate. By now means was I implying that you are still having issues, I just thought it was best that everyone understands the changes your body has been through and the reason you eat so much, but train so much to almost counteract it.

What are your rest day calories like compared to your training days?

Rest days Kcals are the same as training days........... I thought to be honest my body has a day to recharge and repair that it would need them.

MoNkeE · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:09

No, it won't.

With all your exercise, you're probably only hitting a few hundred cals over maintenance to gain weight. On your rest days if you're only burning ~2000 during the day then you're potentially using ~3000 for weight gain - which in itself is nearly enough for a pound of weight in one day!

In an ideal world, you'd taper back your training day calories AND your cardio to a more reasonable level - but I don't think you'll entertain that idea

So really, you need to be hitting say, what, 2600 cals on your rest day, assuming it is a full day of rest. Anyone agree?

Steedie · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:14

Tl:dr above

But if you're saying to eat less calories on rest days, then no, you're very much wrong. Your body is growing on rest days, if anything that's when it really needs those calories

Morba · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:15

Matutu said:
Hence why I upped my calories to allow for this as I thought that would be able to do allow for the cardio and also the gain in muscle?

Eating is part of gaining mass. Training hard and right for it is another thing. I'm going to guess that you are not training right for gaining mass.

Another thing to remember, as you gain lean mass you will burn more kcal, both at rest and even more so in the pool. Meaning you need to up the kcal even more.

I would seriously think about what your real goals are and then look at what your body needs to be like to reach that goal.

MoNkeE · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:17

Steedie said:
Tl:dr above

But if you're saying to eat less calories on rest days, then no, you're very much wrong. Your body is growing on rest days, if anything that's when it really needs those calories

So you're really saying he needs 3000 cals more than maintenance on his rest day? On a SINGLE day? Which is going to result in what, an almost 5000 kcal surplus per week? He's going to be putting the weight on FAR too fast at that rate, you know that and I know that :confused:

Morba · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:20

Exactly monkee, hence 2.5lb gain in 2 weeks, it's a touch too much on the rest day.
However, steedie is right, it shouldnt be cut back completely, you want to eat to recover just not that much lol

Freefaller · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:21

With 2 muscle based training sessions a week, it'll be hard for you to gain some hard muscle to clearly see any progress in a few months.

Steedie · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:25

MoNkeE said:
So you're really saying he needs 3000 cals more than maintenance on his rest day? On a SINGLE day? Which is going to result in what, an almost 5000 kcal surplus per week? He's going to be putting the weight on FAR too fast at that rate, you know that and I know that

Well I only read the first post, but the guy said he ate 4200 a day and was 2lbs lighter, so telling him to eat 2600 calories is just odd.

Your metabolism doesn't just stop the minute you step out the gym, if you're doing that much swimming at an intense level, his bodies going to be burning calories for hours and hours after. So whatever he found his sweet spot to be, about 4400 by the sounds of it. Stick to that every day

MoNkeE · 30 Oct 2012 at 14:31

That's probably why you haven't understood why I said to eat 2600calories on his rest day (ERGO DAY OF ZERO INTENSE PHYSICAL ACTIVITY)

He eats such a high amount of calories cos he's active, not 'cause his metabolism burns quickly. So yeah, continue to eat 4400 - 5000 calories on training days, but if he's barely burning anything on his rest day, he shouldn't be eating 5000 cals still as he's making his overall surplus for the week massively spike.

And yes, 2 sessions of weights will not see you making good gains either.