Woman saves fox from hounds

holymonk said:
Its totally pointless to argue with you, for starters you live on the forums, therefore the debate will be never ending.

Your posts contradict one another; next you will be telling everyone that you were once a matador.
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My point illustrated admirably....thanks holymonk! :rolleyes:
 
holymonk said:
That's 'bull ****'.

Take a calf away from a cow and watch the mother sit there and moo for 3 days straight not moving from the gate.

More sweeping statements please.
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From that quoted piece:
"Scientists are wary of saying that some mammals have a concept of death, while noting that more species than had been thought react when one of their own dies"

The cow moos because the calf is missing, not that it is reacting to the concept of death. I've seen dogs do the same, one dog dies, confusion results as no playmate, oh look tasty bone... Life back to normal.
Humans do not stand at gates in confusion, we understand death and that waiting around does not change the situation.

Debating each others level of perceived bull**** doesn't get us very far :)
 
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estebanrey said:
Could be said the same about humans though.

Whether they conceptualize death is irrelevant anyway, people with severe mental disabilities don't understand death but we don't go around hunting them because of it.
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Well I think, therefore I am.
A child's concept of death is maybe similar to an animals "something happened, looks bad" but that's different from an adults.

It's only relevant in terms of refuting a slightly irreverent post, but maybe has a bearing on the morality of killing an animal - this would change if the animal fully understood what was about to happen.
 
bitslice said:
Well I think, therefore I am.
A child's concept of death is maybe similar to an animals "something happened, looks bad" but that's different from an adults.

It's only relevant in terms of refuting a slightly irreverent post, but maybe has a bearing on the morality of killing an animal - this would change if the animal fully understood what was about to happen.
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What will happen when you die bitslice?
 
holymonk said:
No problem, thankfully your tendentious views appear to be confined to this forum where no real harm can come from them.
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Haha, you have no idea what you are even talking about do you?...my tendentious views and the harm they can do, indeed. The irony is astounding. :D

In the scheme of things I think you will find my prejudices somewhat on the liberal side, they do not stretch to nuking people in Yeovil for example. ;)
 
Nitefly said:
I find bloodsport abhorrent. Good on those peacefully campaigning against it.
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I eat factory farmed chicken with pleasure.

Does disconnecting the pleasure from the act of killing, and the killing from the overall abuse of the animal change anything here?

Morally, I'm perpetuating the abuse of chickens and conspiring in their death simply because I find meat more pleasurable than vegatables.
 
bitslice said:
I eat factory farmed chicken with pleasure.

Does disconnecting the pleasure from the act of killing, and the killing from the overall abuse of the animal change anything here?

Morally, I'm perpetuating the abuse of chickens and conspiring in their death simply because I find meat more pleasurable than vegatables.
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There are parallels, but I can distinguish them in my mind.
 
Nitefly said:
There are parallels, but I can distinguish them in my mind.
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That means its fine then?

This is what i find a bit bizarre about people, you hear people with such a massive opinion on this subject yet they still eat chickens that have been squashed 10 at a time into a cage. It's nutty!
 
Trusty said:
That means its fine then?

This is what i find a bit bizarre about people, you hear people with such a massive opinion on this subject yet they still eat chickens that have been squashed 10 at a time into a cage. It's nutty!
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I'd rather they weren't all squashed in a cage. Personally I don't think it's too hard to distinguish them yet, as I mentioned, I appreciate the parallels.
 
I think one of the biggest problems is people perception of killing, they think it's this lovely passage or something. Where in reality it's absolutely horrible.

I have more of an issue with people who campaign against this stuff and then add demand for supermarket chicken...in reality...the people organising these hunts understand that there is no clean way of killing really. Even if you used a gun, you could miss by a cm and the animal would be suffering for however long. Death on the whole is painful, bloody, uncomfortable act.
 
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It boils down to it being socially unacceptable for someone else to take pleasure in killing, because we are rejecting our nature as primal killing machines. The actual subject (random animal) is irrelevant, so this has nothing to do with animal welfare but more about pretending we are civilised.

This fails when we have a spurious justification for killing (say a random war), whereupon it doesn't matter if anyone takes pleasure in killing, even of a human being.

The ability to switch our distaste on and off again is an interesting conflict.
 
Lets face facts, as long the chickens keep rolling and the foxes don't tear down the heart of agriculture of the UK, we don't really care that much (law enforcement wise - hence Batgranny video), we pretend to - unless you do campaign on it, then your wasting your time trying to dictate rules to other humans who are going to kill them for, at the very least, pest control.

If you care you should adopt a fox or something. Thought not.

PS I wouldn't like to die either but a fox would seriously mess up my flat.
 
I don't personally see foxes as vermin, but I am no farmer. However if they really are a problem there must be a better way to stop them than this. Good on her.
 
I’m curious, Castiel - if you had to have a beloved pet euthanized and only had 2 methods available, bullet to the head or thrown to a pack of dogs, which would you rather?
 
Skunkworks said:
I’m curious, Castiel - if you had to have a beloved pet euthanized and only had 2 methods available, bullet to the head or thrown to a pack of dogs, which would you rather?
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I wouldn't do either, I would take the animal to a vet as in reality neither of those alternatives would be available or practical and what has that got to do with anything? There is a huge difference between domestic animals and wildlife management.

I think people need to take their heads out of their arses and see the difference between the nice cuddly anthropomorphic idea they have about various wildlife and the reality.....hunting with hounds is no worse than shooting when it comes to animal welfare, according to the evidence it is demonstrably better than many of the alternatives including shooting, there are plenty of wildlife professionals including Vets that support that position. I find it spurious that people will vilify me for using a rifle at the same time as saying 'why don't they shoot them instead" and I wonder how they deal with vermin in their own homes and workplaces, poison I suspect, I wonder if they have ever seen a rodent colony die from the effects of poison? And whether they may just prefer to have a cat or a terrier instead?
 
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Skunkworks said:
I’m curious, Castiel - if you had to have a beloved pet euthanized and only had 2 methods available, bullet to the head or thrown to a pack of dogs, which would you rather?
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Implying that all bullets hit the head and are fatal, also a ridiculous comparison because you already have your pet "captured."
 
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