Scottish independence referendum deal agreed.

Is it not a bit farcical to hold a referendum on something that it would appear nobody is 100% certain about the mechanics and implications of?

The EU issue is fairly important, no? Surely a definitive answer is a requirement before any vote can go ahead as I would imagine there are hundreds of thousands of people who would vote different dependant on whether they'd be forced to take the Euro, or leave the EU, or whatever (for some no EU membership may even be seen as a positive point).
 
There is no letter.

Couldn't have happened at a better time either with Leveson & the Edinburgh Agreement in terms of press bias.

No offence intended but do you have any source for this? its just its being reported by lots of reputable news agency's so seems a bit odd they would all go off on some misinformation then not correct it afterwards.
 
The growing Catalonian independence discussion had an interesting twist on the Scottish independence debate. The guardian had a story a couple of weeks ago (just before the elections) with it being stated Catalonia would not get automatic entry into the EU if it became an independent state. Matches up with this supposed letter...
 
[TW]Fox;23314934 said:
Is it not a bit farcical to hold a referendum on something that it would appear nobody is 100% certain about the mechanics and implications of?

Shh Fox, don't write such madness...

If you want to listen to old smug face himself, it'll all be made clear well in advance of the referendum but again I'll guess we'll see what next year brings.
 
[TW]Fox;23314934 said:
Is it not a bit farcical to hold a referendum on something that it would appear nobody is 100% certain about the mechanics and implications of?

The EU issue is fairly important, no? Surely a definitive answer is a requirement before any vote can go ahead as I would imagine there are hundreds of thousands of people who would vote different dependant on whether they'd be forced to take the Euro, or leave the EU, or whatever (for some no EU membership may even be seen as a positive point).

People are certain, of that I have no doubt, what is being peddled out at the moment is myth and lies however. You cannot square a circle.

The EU position will be clarified by the SG Prospectus for Independence White Paper next year.

The ascertions in there will be open for all to try to debunk.
 
No offence intended but do you have any source for this? its just its being reported by lots of reputable news agency's so seems a bit odd they would all go off on some misinformation then not correct it afterwards.

Does the Scotsman, that oh so reputable regional news outlet, have any source for their ficticious letter? Or the BBC who refuse to attend Holyrood Committees, and are also as culpable as their reputation falls apart for numerous reasons..

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.ph...tsman-eu-membership-story-qincorrectq-says-ec

A lot of myths get reported by the MSM, this is nothing new it has been an occurance for centuries.
 
The growing Catalonian independence discussion had an interesting twist on the Scottish independence debate. The guardian had a story a couple of weeks ago (just before the elections) with it being stated Catalonia would not get automatic entry into the EU if it became an independent state. Matches up with this supposed letter...

The constitutional differences between Scotland and the UK, and Catelonia and Spain do not marry however.
 
Shh Fox, don't write such madness...

If you want to listen to old smug face himself, it'll all be made clear well in advance of the referendum but again I'll guess we'll see what next year brings.

It will be made clear next year.

Apart from Westminster who have stated they will not clarify their position by way of publicising legal opinion. How that existed before the Edinburgh Agreement is anyone's guess..
 
It just seems odd that you claim that you're bored of it but then going and making a bunch of posts about it.

I think we all know that there are certain issues that aren't cleared up, and there is a lot of misinformation around (from all sides). I'm just going to put the whole thing to the back of my mind for the time being until we get some stuff in concrete. But, that being said I already know how I intend to vote. I think if you're going to take whatever the Scotsman says as gospel, then you're a bit dim.
I think that the fact is there are numerous unanswered questions that neither side know the answer to and it's a bit silly just assuming that the press has an inside scoop. I'd prefer to get my information from Westminster/Hollyrood publications.
 
It just seems odd that you claim that you're bored of it but then going and making a bunch of posts about it.

Because I am, quite obviously, interested politically... I am expressing how I find the current theme of debate increadibly repetative and largely inaccurate and not what was advertised. Why can I not complain about there where and when I see fit?

We were promised a positive campaign, but it's been a far cry from that. A senior Tory the other day was calling for the independence referendum to be an opportunity for Scotlands block grant to be cut!

I hope, for the sake of democracy in this country, that these dip ***** get a grip.

I think we all know that there are certain issues that aren't cleared up, and there is a lot of misinformation around (from all sides). I'm just going to put the whole thing to the back of my mind for the time being until we get some stuff in concrete. But, that being said I already know how I intend to vote. I think if you're going to take whatever the Scotsman says as gospel, then you're a bit dim.
I think that the fact is there are numerous unanswered questions that neither side know the answer to and it's a bit silly just assuming that the press has an inside scoop. I'd prefer to get my information from Westminster/Hollyrood publications.

What I should specify then is the press running with mythology as fact, that specifically is annoying me. Not for the effect, that's been proved time and time again negligable when the cards are down, but just for my own reading consumption. It's like a broken record.

I don't take what the Scotsman says as gospel, quite evidently, that can't be said of the BBC today though can it..
 
Last edited:
Perhaps if the commission bothered to enlighten people earlier, it wouldn't have had to gone on this long.

Then again they do have bigger issues, like the thought of a collapse of the EU, now that is something that I would enjoy.

Sums up your mentality.
 
Does the Scotsman, that oh so reputable regional news outlet, have any source for their ficticious letter?

From what's been said on the subject they and others have allegedly seen a draft of the letter the EU is sending out next week in response to the house of lords request for a letter of clarification on the matter, if it is a hoax though it seems strange that the BBC and many credible papers and news agency's are also reporting the same thing.
 
The EU position will be clarified by the SG Prospectus for Independence White Paper next year.

No.

The SNP's opinion on the EU position will be clarified in the white paper. The SNP like to assert "perfectly sensible solutions" but the EU (and NATO, etc) are free to adopt something different. the only people who can clarify the EU position are the EU.
 
No.

The SNP's opinion on the EU position will be clarified in the white paper. The SNP like to assert "perfectly sensible solutions" but the EU (and NATO, etc) are free to adopt something different. the only people who can clarify the EU position are the EU.

I think you'll find that only Biohazard is allow to clarify people's positions on things.
 
the only people who can clarify the EU position are the EU.

Correct! However the SNP still don't agree..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20664907

Transcript of the interview

Interviewer: The Commission has made it clear that any country, a country like Scotland, that would choose to be independent, would need to reapply for EU membership. When you think about how that would work, would it just be nodded through, do you think?

Jose Manuel Barroso: "Look, I did not comment on specific situations of member states because I very much respect that it is their right, their sovereign right to decide about their organisation.

"Now, what I said, and it is our doctrine and it is clear since 2004 in legal terms, if one part of a country - I am not referring now to any specific one - wants to become an independent state, of course as an independent state it has to apply to the European membership according to the rules - that is obvious."

Interviewer: "So, it has to renegotiate its terms?"

Jose Manuel Barroso: "Yes."

Interviewer: "And is it renegotiating those terms from inside, as a member of the EU, or is it effectively reapplying from outside the EU?"

Jose Manuel Barroso: "We are a union of states, so if there is a new state, of course, that state has to apply for membership and negotiate the conditions with other member states......

Interviewer: "So if, and I am using the example of Scotland, and I appreciate you are not talking about specifics, but say a country like Scotland, it, say, chooses independence, it is then like a new state applying to the EU?"

Jose Manuel Barroso: "For European Union purposes, from a legal point of view, it is certainly a new state. If a country becomes independent it is a new state and has to negotiate with the EU.

Interviewer: "What about the rest of the UK that is effectively left behind by Scotland's independence...."

Jose Manuel Barroso: "That is the principle of the continuity of the state, in that case if a....

Interviewer: "Would it have to renegotiate its terms?"

Jose Manuel Barroso: "No, no in principle no."

In response, Ms Sturgeon said: "We do not agree that an independent Scotland will be in the position of having to reapply for European Union membership, because there is no provision for removing EU treaties from any part of EU territory, or for removing European citizenship from the people of a country which has been in the EU for 40 years.

"We have always said that the specific terms of Scotland's continued EU membership as an independent nation will be negotiated - but the crucial point is that these negotiations will take place from within the EU, because in the period immediately following a 'Yes' vote in the referendum, Scotland will still be part of the UK and the EU.


I can appreciate what she is saying in regards to the fact that detailed discussions re EU membership would only be held after a "Yes" vote but they are still claiming that an independent Scotland would not have to "apply" to the EU as has just been clarified. I'm not entirely convinced they aren't trying to put a positive spin on this story by trying to bamboozle people!
 
Back
Top Bottom