Could you use deadly force to defend an animal / pet?

[estebanrey]

No being able to show remorse, our intelligence, ability to reason and learn make us distinct to the rest of the animal kingdom.

But every species could make a claim similar to that. A dolphin's ability to use sonar, a bird's ability to fly, a cat's ability to see in almost complete darkness.

Every animal has some kind of evolutionary 'skill' that is unique to it, we just happen to have intelligence.

I wouldn't say that makes us 'better' than an other animal and it's talent.

P.S. You need to brush up on your research if you think humans are the only ones able to reason. Intelligence is also debatable, because what counts? This chip can beat any human in this intelligence test for example...

 

[Richdog]

No because I value human life over that of a pet for many reasons because I'm not mental.

I think the most disturbing here is that people like yourself and others seem unable to grasp some really simple concepts, concepts that are not requiring a psychology degree to get your head around.

• We KNOW that pets, especially cats and dogs, are beloved by their owners. Like part of the family for many people. Loyal, dependable (obviously talking about dogs specifically here ), they are with them permanently and feed and care for them every day of their lives.
• This indicates a very strong emotional bond, and can easily fall under the "love" category.
• Now, here is where you use your grey matter. People are obviously thus going to value the life of something they love, pet or human, above some ****bag of a person they know nothing about that is trying to kill said beloved pet.

If you can't understand that simple and logical concept, then I'm sorry but you must suffer from mild emotional retardation and a complete lack of ability to empathize.

To put it in perspective, I'm sure many will agree that the life of an innocent human being is very important, arguably more important than an animal. The human has family, people who will miss them, and we (for the most part) naturally empathize with that. If someone had a choice out of saving a drowning child or a drowning dog next to each-other in the water and only one could be saved, I would say the vast majority of balanced people would go for the child and grieve for the dog later. because that would be the human, right and just thing to do.

However, once someone decides to attack, without provocation, that which we love, all respect and sympathy goes out of the window, and then we revert to the instinctual act of saving the thing we love from the scumbag who is going to kill it. I would then say that in most peoples minds while all of this is happening that the life of someone who has taken it upon themselves to cause harm to the thing that you love, out of malice and without reason, is worth less than the life of a cat or dog that has done nothing to deserve it.

Why do you value a cat or dog over a gold fish??

Because a cat and dog are capable of directly interacting, and emotionally engaging with people. Dogs especially so. A goldfish isn't capable of returning any affection and the interaction you have with them is many, many times more limited.

Next stupid ****ing question with a forehead-slappingly obvious answer please?

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

Do you have a chimp or dolphin as a pet?

Other than the reasons I have given already, one of the biggest reasons I would let my pet die over a human is, I want to be able to sleep next to my girlfriend, see my family and friends, be able to travel the world, work where I want etc... And not end up in prison for murder. Hence my mental bit in my original post, I value my life and wellbeing if my family over my pets

 

[FARGO]

Someone gives you these options;

You shoot your pet

or

They shoot your pet


Which would you choose?

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

I think the most disturbing here is that people like yourself and others seem unable to grasp some really simple concepts, concepts that are not requiring a psychology degree to get your head around.

• We KNOW that pets, especially cats and dogs, are beloved by their owners. Like part of the family for many people. Loyal, dependable, they are with them permanently and feed and care for them every day of their lives.
• This indicates a very strong emotional bond, and can easily fall under the "love" category.
• Now, here is where you use your grey matter. People are obviously thus going to value the life of something they love, pet or human, above some ****bag of a person they know nothing about that is trying to kill said beloved pet.

If you can't understand that simple and logical concept, then I'm sorry but you must suffer from mild emotional retardation and a complete lack of ability to empathize.

To put it in perspective, I'm sure many will agree that the life of an innocent human being is very important, arguably more important than an animal. The human has family, people who will miss them, and we (for the most part) naturally empathize with that.

However, once someone decides to attack, without provocation, that which we love, all respect and sympathy goes out of the window, and then we revert to the instinctual act of saving the thing we love from the scumbag who is going to kill it. I would then say that in most peoples minds while all of this is happening that the life of someone who has taken it upon themselves to cause harm to the thing that you love, out of malice and without reason, is worth less than the life of a cat or dog that has done nothing to deserve it.



Because a cat and dog are capable of directly interacting, and emotionally engaging with people. Dogs especially so. A goldfish isn't capable of returning any affection and the interaction you have with them is many, many times more limited.

Next stupid ****ing question with a forehead-slappingly obvious answer please?

My reason.

Other than the reasons I have given already, one of the biggest reasons I would let my pet die over a human is, I want to be able to sleep next to my girlfriend, see my family and friends, be able to travel the world, work where I want etc... And not end up in prison for murder. Hence my mental bit in my original post, I value my life and wellbeing if my family over my pets

 

[estebanrey]

To put it in perspective, I'm sure many will agree that the life of an innocent human being is very important, arguably more important than an animal. The human has family, people who will miss them, and we (for the most part) naturally empathize with that. If someone had a choice out of saving a drowning child or a drowning dog next to each-other in the water and only one could be saved, I would say the vast majority of balanced people would go for the child and grieve for the dog later. because that would be the human, right and just thing to do.

However, once someone decides to attack, without provocation, that which we love, all respect and sympathy goes out of the window, and then we revert to the instinctual act of saving the thing we love from the scumbag who is going to kill it. I would then say that in most peoples minds while all of this is happening that the life of someone who has taken it upon themselves to cause harm to the thing that you love, out of malice and without reason, is worth less than the life of a cat or dog that has done nothing to deserve it.

This

 

[D.P.]

I wouldn't even blink an eye in taking out someone who was going to kill my pet without good reason. A human is an animal, a mammal like mouse, sheep, rat or cow. They hold no special statue just for being on top of the food chain.

 

[D.P.]

I think the most disturbing here is that people like yourself and others seem unable to grasp some really simple concepts, concepts that are not requiring a psychology degree to get your head around.

• We KNOW that pets, especially cats and dogs, are beloved by their owners. Like part of the family for many people. Loyal, dependable (obviously talking about dogs specifically here ), they are with them permanently and feed and care for them every day of their lives.
• This indicates a very strong emotional bond, and can easily fall under the "love" category.
• Now, here is where you use your grey matter. People are obviously thus going to value the life of something they love, pet or human, above some ****bag of a person they know nothing about that is trying to kill said beloved pet.

If you can't understand that simple and logical concept, then I'm sorry but you must suffer from mild emotional retardation and a complete lack of ability to empathize.

To put it in perspective, I'm sure many will agree that the life of an innocent human being is very important, arguably more important than an animal. The human has family, people who will miss them, and we (for the most part) naturally empathize with that. If someone had a choice out of saving a drowning child or a drowning dog next to each-other in the water and only one could be saved, I would say the vast majority of balanced people would go for the child and grieve for the dog later. because that would be the human, right and just thing to do.

However, once someone decides to attack, without provocation, that which we love, all respect and sympathy goes out of the window, and then we revert to the instinctual act of saving the thing we love from the scumbag who is going to kill it. I would then say that in most peoples minds while all of this is happening that the life of someone who has taken it upon themselves to cause harm to the thing that you love, out of malice and without reason, is worth less than the life of a cat or dog that has done nothing to deserve it.



Because a cat and dog are capable of directly interacting, and emotionally engaging with people. Dogs especially so. A goldfish isn't capable of returning any affection and the interaction you have with them is many, many times more limited.

Next stupid ****ing question with a forehead-slappingly obvious answer please?

Great reply

 

[estebanrey]

They hold no special statue just for being on top of the food chain.

Agreed, but I'd like to take this opportunity to dis-pell a myth. There is no such thing as "THE food chain" with humans sitting at the top and all over living things sitting underneath.

There are food chainS; our one would include us at the top with chickens and cows below us. A lion though is top of it's food chain, a bear is at the top of it's own food chain.

A lot of people like to portray ‘the’ food chain as if it one big diagram, similar to a business hierarchy with the most important thing at the top (us) and everything else underneath. Doesn't work like that, a food chain is nothing more than a list of which order certain animals eat other in.

 

[krooton]

Krooton, why do you value a cat or dog over a goldfish or hamster?

Richdog did a good job of summing it up.

Cats, dogs, pigs and other 'top tier' animals have brains developed enough to form emotional bonds with humans, something fish and hamsters aren't able to do.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

The thing I can't get my head around is valueing your freedom over a pet's life.

Don't get me wrong I love my cats and beat the living **** out of a person who killed or injured my cats deliberately but that's not what this topic is about. I couldn't kill another person over a pet, I would find it hard to justify my actions not only to a court but my family and friends.

 

[Richdog]

Agreed, but I'd like to take this opportunity to dis-pell a myth. There is no such thing as "THE food chain" with humans sitting at the top and all over living things sitting underneath.

There are food chainS; our one would include us at the top with chickens and cows below us. A lion though is top of it's food chain, a bear is at the top of it's own food chain.

A lot of people like to portray ‘the’ food chain as if it one big diagram, similar to a business hierarchy with the most important thing at the top (us) and everything else underneath. Doesn't work like that, a food chain is nothing more than a list of which order certain animals eat other in.

Objectively speaking though, in the minds of most people there is only one "food chain", and the way we commonly use it is to refer to the superiority of the various species on the planet (which is how most people look at it I'd wager), and humans with their technology are firmly at the top and have been for many thousands of years.

However, take a naked man and throw him in the middle of the Savannah, or in the heart of the Pacific and i'll wager the situation reverses dramatically.

 

[krooton]

The thing I can't get my head around is valueing your freedom over a pet's life.

Don't get me wrong I love my cats and beat the living **** out of a person who killed or injured my cats deliberately but that's not what this topic is about. I couldn't kill another person over a pet, I would find it hard to justify my actions not only to a court but my family and friends.

I specifically said that I would not kill someone to protect my pet, but I would do everything else.

 

[orderoftheflame]

Whilst I wouldn't try to kill, I would have no problem attacking a human that was attacking my dog/cat.

 

[Craterloads]

The thing I can't get my head around is valueing your freedom over a pet's life.

Don't get me wrong I love my cats and beat the living **** out of a person who killed or injured my cats deliberately but that's not what this topic is about. I couldn't kill another person over a pet, I would find it hard to justify my actions not only to a court but my family and friends.

That was pretty much the point of the thread. Would you be held responsible and would you go to prison. And the answer is, it depends / dont know.

So its not as simple as your freedom over a pets life.

 

[Something Else]

ive punched a kid once because he kicked my cat. i was 15 at the time, he was younger, about 13 or so.

while i feel justified for giving the kid what he deserves i doubt a police officer would agree unless they had a pet.

 

[Voltar]

I've enjoyed reading this thread. Point is though you still go to jail. Nothing to do with loving your dog or cat or whatever or being a pet owner or not. But on an emotional level the things some people do to their pets and other people's pets makes me very mad indeed.

 

[MeEsH BaKkA]

That was pretty much the point of the thread. Would you be held responsible and would you go to prison. And the answer is, it depends / dont know.

So its not as simple as your freedom over a pets life.

Of course you would be responsible, wether it's murder or manslaughter would be up to the court but I would be very very surprised if prison was not the outcome.

 

[Voltar]

That was pretty much the point of the thread. Would you be held responsible and would you go to prison. And the answer is, it depends / dont know.

So its not as simple as your freedom over a pets life.

The answer is yes you will go to prison.

Yes there will be some mitigation and there will be *some* instances where you may not.

 

[illuz]

Hamsters and sloths exempt.