Baroness Thatcher in Hospital

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Housey said:
That your point that because she did nothing for you or your family she was rubbish. If that and the fact that briefly we went to an interest rate of 15% for a few hours then it's hardly a debate worthy of discussion. THAT is my point, don't take it personally as attacking you as Im not, I just think your argument is stupid, not you.
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So the £3.4 billion the UK lost on Black Wednesday is nothing :rolleyes:
 
Yes but they were still high for a few years.

http://www.houseweb.co.uk/house/market/irfig.html

Ok i grew up with labour supporting parents my dad had strong union involvement with his work place for 30 years, i seen many people lose their homes and we nearly did, look what has happened since privatization, pure greed has taken over for the normal working class people to suffer again and again, we don't all come from wealthy backgrounds and people who do just can't see it they really can't, i never expect anything from any government now days after been made redundant twice and got told to collect glasses from the plebs in the job centre, great way to lose skilled workers of this country.
 
Housey said:
I said that where?

Lose the childish roll eyes too please, it weakens your point.
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You said " If that and the fact that briefly we went to an interest rate of 15% for a few hours then it's hardly a debate worthy of discussion"

"weakens my point" what drugs are you on?

I remember black Wednesday I thought I was going to lose my house for a short time.
 
deuse said:
You said " If that and the fact that briefly we went to an interest rate of 15% for a few hours then it's hardly a debate worthy of discussion"

"weakens my point" what drugs are you on?

I remember black Wednesday I thought I was going to lose my house for a short time.
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If you continue to quote me out of context it will be pointless. To clarify to make it simple, the 2 aspects together for me don't support a conclusion she was rubbish. She wasn't perfect, far from it, but who is but she wasn't the utter failure many are trying to paint.

The drugs are paracetamol right now due to a sore head.

I also had a house with a mortgage then, I was in work and was also living through it so its obvious the impact on you was different to the impact on me, which supports the point I have been trying to make in this thread doesn't it...
 
Housey said:
But the only way they can be far removed is not being part of it and then the only way they can form any opinion is by listening to people who were. It also assumes that the commentators remove all their emotion from their summaries or perspectives, which again isn't the case.

I stand by my point. An objective person who was there and then educated themselves broader after the event will have a better perspective than those who only did the latter because you are assuming that everyone who experienced it has the inability to be objective, which isn't the case.
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That was never your point, or at least you never stated that very clearly.

So your disagreeing with me saying that someone emotional cannot give an objective view, by saying someone objective can give an objective view? What exactly are you disagreeing with?
 
No1newts said:
That was never your point, or at least you never stated that very clearly.

So your disagreeing with me saying that someone emotional cannot give an objective view, by saying someone objective can give an objective view? What exactly are you disagreeing with?
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To be clear.

I am saying that to be there and also read others views who were also there and then form an opinion is better than simply forming an opinion of those who were there without being there yourself. I have said that in this thread and that is VERY clearly stated. I am saying the opposite of what you said above, I am saying both historical reference and experience bests just reference and I am saying it is absolutely possible to remove emotion to be objective, you were suggesting often this isnt the case and we perhaps are debating on how often.
 
deuse said:
You said " If that and the fact that briefly we went to an interest rate of 15% for a few hours then it's hardly a debate worthy of discussion"

"weakens my point" what drugs are you on?

I remember black Wednesday I thought I was going to lose my house for a short time.
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Lots of people were worried about mortgages.

The main difference between the parties is that under the tories you live and stand by your actions far more than under labour.

Eg look at this, see what Labour did when it was going **** up, they helped those who had gone debt crazy and bought houses they couldnt afford, as as usual for them left the rest of us with the bill.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-1655544/Mortgage-support-for-homeowners.html

Thats the best review I can find as its quite old news so not making good hits on google.

Key point, they changed the 39 week qualifying period to 13 weeks before the tax payer picks up the main interest bill. Nice move, thanks Labour. It was typical of the things they would do, and is one of the biggest drags on the economy even now, the failure to allow a housing price correction that should have happened, but then they would have had to fess up how the real economic situation was far worse than they were admitting.

The US allowed it to happen and IMO it was one of the main reasons they are coming out of the ecomonic problems a lot faster than us.
 
Naffa said:
I would love someone to try and convince me that her legacy is not exactly as I have just described it.
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First you would need to convince me that the legacy you speak of was actually her doing. For someone you revile so much I feel you give her far too much credit and assign too much to her personally.

But as far as Thatcher goes it seems unlikely that any reasoned argument can be had especially with people cheering the death of an old woman or actively wishing for her death. Thatcher has long since stopped being a real person as far as some of the left are concerned and is instead a convenient bogeyman for all that is wrong with the world.
 
Tummy said:
Can I ask a question? Are you calling Spook187 stupid? (as you just did) or are you not calling him stupid (as you claim you just did, yet at the top of the page called him stupid)?
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I do not believe he is stupid and I did not call him such. I suggested, based on purely this thread some may argue that, but I don't believe it and if I gave that impression then I apologise.

Clear?
 
Housey said:
I do not believe he is stupid and I did not call him such. I suggested, based on purely this thread some may argue that, but I don't believe it and if I gave that impression then I apologise.

Clear?
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No, but hilarious :D

Keep up the good work.
 
OldCoals said:
It was outside of the exclusion zone.
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this is irrelevant and in fact the legality of the sinking isn't in dispute

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano#Legal_situation

The Belgrano was sunk outside the 200-nautical-mile (370 km) total exclusion zone around the Falklands. Exclusion zones are historically declared for the benefit of neutral vessels; during war, under international law, the heading and location of a belligerent naval vessel has no bearing on its status. In addition, the captain of the Belgrano, Héctor Bonzo, has testified that the attack was legitimate (as did the Argentine government in 1994).[15][16][17][18][19]

Though the ship was outside the 200-mile (370 km) exclusion zone, both sides understood that this was no longer the limit of British action—on 23 April a message was passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government, it read:

In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty's Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection Her Majesty's Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response. All Argentine aircraft, including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces, will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.[20]

Interviews conducted by Martin Middlebrook for his book, The Fight For The Malvinas, indicated that Argentine Naval officers understood the intent of the message was to indicate that any ships operating near the exclusion zone could be attacked. Argentine Rear Admiral Allara, who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of, said "After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano".[20]

The modified rules of engagement permitted the engagement of Belgrano outside the exclusion zone before the sinking.
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RDM said:
First you would need to convince me that the legacy you speak of was actually her doing. For someone you revile so much I feel you give her far too much credit and assign too much to her personally.

But as far as Thatcher goes it seems unlikely that any reasoned argument can be had especially with people cheering the death of an old woman or actively wishing for her death. Thatcher has long since stopped being a real person as far as some of the left are concerned and is instead a convenient bogeyman for all that is wrong with the world.
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Why would I have to convince you of that? She was prime minister when our country and economy was changed in this way, thus it is right to call it her legacy. Who on Earth would suggest that everything any government was all the result of one person?
 
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