Road Cycling Essentials

One More Solo · 9 Jan 2013 at 11:54

George Hincapie said:
As are others. Just not with the same user names here

The avatar is a giveaway.

George Hincapie · 9 Jan 2013 at 11:56

touch said:
I disagree.
The 2012 TdF was a little different because some of the domestiques seemed to be climbing better than their team leaders on some stages and it became more of a battle between domestiques.

I think that the GC guys need a team big enough to get them back into the peleton if they have a crash or mechanical issue.
It's much more exciting to see a race won through attacking than lost through crashes/mechanicals.

To be fair though, can you really call Froome, who finished 2nd, a domestique? He could have won in his own right. He was a second option really.

Tejay Van Garderen is the other 'domestique' I can think that you might mean. He dropped Cadel a number of times, as well as riding on when he should have stopped and given Cadel his bike (I was at that stage). He ended up with Best Young Rider IIRC.

I think the Teams are the right size TBH, I don't think the Olympic RR was an example of why we should reduce numbers.

George Hincapie · 9 Jan 2013 at 11:57

One More Solo said:
The avatar is a giveaway.

Indeed!

touch · 9 Jan 2013 at 12:08

George Hincapie said:
To be fair though, can you really call Froome, who finished 2nd, a domestique? He could have won in his own right.

Is that not the definition of a domestique?
Could have done better if he was riding for himself, but instead played a team role.

George Hincapie said:
Tejay Van Garderen is the other 'domestique' I can think that you might mean. He dropped Cadel a number of times, as well as riding on when he should have stopped and given Cadel his bike (I was at that stage). He ended up with Best Young Rider IIRC.

I was think of Basso, to an extent, also.

chanjy · 9 Jan 2013 at 12:27

Ahhh the distinction betwee super domestiques and mere domestiques

I think smaller teams would a) make sprints more exciting (can't control breakaways AND have a big sprint train) and b) make it MORE attacking on the mountains. Wonder why people didn't do much attacking last year? Because they knew Sky had so much manpower they would be pulled back.

One More Solo · 9 Jan 2013 at 12:48

The lack of attacks last year were because none of the GC contenders had the legs on Wiggins, if the Schlecks and Contador find the form we know they are capable of this year then it will be a different story. Neither Evans nor Nibali had the ability to put in real attacks on the mountain stages last year.

Lead_Head · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:01

ShuttVR have there club bib shorts on offer, two for £59 reduced from £98.

http://www.shuttvr.com/shop/product...a-Shutt_January_Sale1_9_2013&utm_medium=email

I picked up a pair when they were reduced earlier this year and they are pretty decent. Easily on a par with Endura and Altura, if not better. They do come up a bit small though, I usually go for an XL, but this was a bit small from crotch to shoulder.

Vonhelmet · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:21

One More Solo said:
The lack of attacks last year were because none of the GC contenders had the legs on Wiggins, if the Schlecks and Contador find the form we know they are capable of this year then it will be a different story. Neither Evans nor Nibali had the ability to put in real attacks on the mountain stages last year.

Contador was an absolute beast in the back end of the Vuelta.

I also don't see that cycling would be "boring" if it were totally clean. It might be a bit slower, but it would be a damn sight more interesting than knowing the results were being decided in the meta-game of drugs and defeating the doping controls.

touch · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:22

great picture floating around facebook to show how steep a velodrome really is:

Lead_Head · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:27

What sort of prize money is on offer in pro cycling? What would the winner get for winning the Giro, Vuelta, TdF?

How much do you think Dave Brailsford came out with at the end of 2012 for his work with TeamGB and Team Sky?

George Hincapie · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:36

chanjy said:
I think smaller teams would a) make sprints more exciting (can't control breakaways AND have a big sprint train) and b) make it MORE attacking on the mountains. Wonder why people didn't do much attacking last year? Because they knew Sky had so much manpower they would be pulled back.

It wasn't just SKY doing the pulling, especially not on the Sprint stages. In fact the Sprint stages were Lotto/Green Edge dominated last year.

touch · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:37

Lead_Head said:
What sort of prize money is on offer in pro cycling? What would the winner get for winning the Giro, Vuelta, TdF?

How much do you think Dave Brailsford came out with at the end of 2012 for his work with TeamGB and Team Sky?

Prize money for the TdF is around 500,000 euros IIRC.
Traditionally the winner will not take any and split the money between his team (dont know if this still happens).

Vonhelmet · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:38

Lead_Head said:
What sort of prize money is on offer in pro cycling? What would the winner get for winning the Giro, Vuelta, TdF?

How much do you think Dave Brailsford came out with at the end of 2012 for his work with TeamGB and Team Sky?

Googling suggests about half a million euros for winning the tour.

00bob00 · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:57

Hi Guys,

Did a search and there were a few recommendations but I'm looking specifically for a set of lights for my new/old bike and a helmet for my massive head. I'm new. I'll probably need some high visability gear as well.

Is it best to go to a store and try these things?

I've not ridden a bike for very long and i'm not sure whether it's going to be a daily thing or a casual thing but I'd like to get into it.

I'm on a 1986 Holdsworth challenger GT, i forget whether it's fixed gear or single speed, they're probably the same thing. My first bike!

George Hincapie · 9 Jan 2013 at 13:58

Vonhelmet said:
Contador was an absolute beast in the back end of the Vuelta.

I also don't see that cycling would be "boring" if it were totally clean. It might be a bit slower, but it would be a damn sight more interesting than knowing the results were being decided in the meta-game of drugs and defeating the doping controls.

I suggest you try one of the famous climbs in the Alps or Pyrenees and then imagine doing several similar climbs in a 170KM+ stage in a day. Then imagine doing that almost every day for 2 weeks with another week on the flat. The TdF is an insane challenge. In fact, insane doesn't even begin to describe how stupidly challenging it is.

Perhaps 'boring' was a poor choice of word. What I should have posted was 'less exciting'. Without PEDs cycling would be less exciting, I can't think of any other way to explain it. Not only would the racing be miles slower, you just wouldn't see the quantity or quality of attacks. There would be a lot more DNFs because the human body simply cannot manage that level of constant exertion without help.

For one day races, then sure, clean would be fine, but for the GTs then it's a different matter. I'm not condoning drug abuse either, it's just the way I see it. You can't expect to have clean riders but keep the style of racing we have now in World Tour.

I suppose people need to decide what it is that they want to see?

Vonhelmet · 9 Jan 2013 at 14:01

George Hincapie said:
I suggest you try one of the famous climbs in the Alps or Pyrenees and then imagine doing several similar climbs in a 170KM+ stage in a day. Then imagine doing that almost every day for 2 weeks with another week on the flat. The TdF is an insane challenge. In fact, insane doesn't even begin to describe how stupidly challenging it is.

Perhaps 'boring' was a poor choice of word. What I should have posted was 'less exciting'. Without PEDs cycling would be less exciting, I can't think of any other way to explain it. Not only would the racing be miles slower, you just wouldn't see the quantity or quality of attacks. There would be a lot more DNFs because the human body simply cannot manage that level of constant exertion without help.

For one day races, then sure, clean would be fine, but for the GTs then it's a different matter. I'm not condoning drug abuse either, it's just the way I see it. You can't expect to have clean riders but keep the style of racing we have now in World Tour.

I suppose people need to decide what it is that they want to see?

Not sure why you're taking a confrontational tone in your first paragraph... Yes, it is abundantly clear that it is absurdly challenging. Can it be done without drugs? Yes. Is it easier with drugs? Of course, but that's not so much fun in terms of it actually being a competitive sport. I'd rather watch fewer people achieve the goal at a slower pace than see a bunch of people using drugs to finish.

George Hincapie · 9 Jan 2013 at 14:06

touch said:
Is that not the definition of a domestique?
Could have done better if he was riding for himself, but instead played a team role.

I always thought of a domestique as a capable, rounded rider, who hasn't really got the skill or consistency to get a win on their own, unless they make it into a break. So for example, Russ Downing, Bernie Eisel, Mick Rogers etc.

I consider super-domestiques to be those riders who could win on their own and have in the past; David Millar, George Hincapie, Jens Voight etc.

I suspect in that case, Froome would fit into the super-domestique category.

I would love to see Froome given leadership of SKY this year. I can't warm to him personally - there's something very iRobot about him - but he's an incredible attacking rider and that's what I love to see.

George Hincapie · 9 Jan 2013 at 14:09

Vonhelmet said:
Not sure why you're taking a confrontational tone in your first paragraph...

Frustration. I'm just not sure you grasp it. No offence intended. Even though you're likely to be offended any way.

The guys aren't machines, there's only so much they can do. I suppose as well we shouldn't forget human nature in all of this as well.

One More Solo · 9 Jan 2013 at 14:17

George Hincapie said:
I suggest you try one of the famous climbs in the Alps or Pyrenees and then imagine doing several similar climbs in a 170KM+ stage in a day. Then imagine doing that almost every day for 2 weeks with another week on the flat. The TdF is an insane challenge. In fact, insane doesn't even begin to describe how stupidly challenging it is.

Undoubtedly, but there are still clean riders in the peloton that manage to complete the Tour. If everyone was clean then the pace may drop a little (though you only have to compare recent ascent times of Alpe d'Huez vs the likes of Armstrong and Pantani to see this is already happening) but the competition would remain the same.

Vonhelmet · 9 Jan 2013 at 14:18

George Hincapie said:
Frustration. I'm just not sure you grasp it. No offence intended. Even though you're likely to be offended any way.

The guys aren't machines, there's only so much they can do. I suppose as well we shouldn't forget human nature in all of this as well.

I grasp that I find it a challenge to climb the 200ft from my house to the main road, so it's not much of a leap to grasp that at present I wouldn't even be able to complete a single stage of the tour.

If cycling were totally clean and the tour were visibly too difficult i.e. barely anyone finishing or whatever, then it would be down to the organisers to make the course more manageable and for people to readjust their expectations of what a cyclist can do.