David Cameron's speech on Europe

[Biohazard]

What sort of rubbish is that?

Precisely, perhaps something Better Together should be now reflecting on. I say should, they won't, but history alone will judge them.

 

[[TW]Fox]

All that impacts me is not having to worry about passport control when going to Europe.

So you've no idea either then, as passport control is a Schengen thing to which the UK are not signatories anyway! You still need your passport to travel to Europe (Except Ireland).

 

[ElvisFan]

the UK would renege a lot of protections/laws/social benefits of being in the EU that I think people would very soon start to miss.

Name them.

 

[ElvisFan]

Leaving it would allow far too many powers which protect us to return to the hands of a government with absolutely no interest in the vast majority of our population.

Name them.

 

[One]

Name them.

How about the fact there is a court that holds a higher power than our supreme court? That alone gives everyone in this entire country one extra chance to prove their innocence. If that isn't reason enough then I don't know what is!

 

[anything I don't mind]

 

[v0n]

The Eurovision song contest is for European nations, not EU members?

You are not far from the truth. It's actually song contest organized among members of broadcasters union (EBU), which is why we compete with geographically splintered third parties, such as Israel and some other exotic nations from outside of the European continent.

The original question however perfectly illustrates just how informed the nation is about all things European.

So you've no idea either then, as passport control is a Schengen thing to which the UK are not signatories anyway! You still need your passport to travel to Europe (Except Ireland).

And, as with every country outside of EU, it's almost guaranteed one would need a visa for every country travelled through after separation. Now, that's something I remember well.

But Cameron's circus will have more of a immediate effect.
Couple of months at most before we'll notice start of investor panic. I mean, if you were a corporation, would you invest in a country that might or might not be part of a common market within the next 5-7 years? And if you had such plans, you wouldn't be looking for expensive and potentially politically and financially unstable country going through internal and external secession such as Britain. Labour, land and running costs in Albania would be much cheaper, right?
Next, we'll notice mass migration of existing production lines. Why would for example all the Hondas, Nissans, Tatas, Toyotas, Fords or Opels keep establishing manufacturing lines in a country that might end up being subject to prohibitive customs duties on mainland continent within a decade? Why not, just in case, keep production within solid EU borders? It will be easier to sell handful of RHD cars with high import duties, than export majority of LHD cars with high duty levied.
And then will come small trader panic. Mortgages, business loans and leasings issued long term to hundreds of thousands of people who may or may not become illegal aliens over night one day soon. Tens of thousands of expats on Portugese, French and Spanish beaches sweating over possibility of forced return to cold, harsh and expensive mothership. Students refused grants and exchanges because they possibly won't be EU workers by the end of their studies.

Uncertainty. It is so good for business.

 

[delta0]

You are not far from the truth. It's actually song contest organized among members of broadcasters union (EBU), which is why we compete with geographically splintered third parties, such as Israel and some other exotic nations from outside of the European continent.

The original question however perfectly illustrates just how informed the nation is about all things European.



And, as with every country outside of EU, it's almost guaranteed one would need a visa for every country travelled through after separation. Now, that's something I remember well.

But Cameron's circus will have more of a immediate effect.
Couple of months at most before we'll notice start of investor panic. I mean, if you were a corporation, would you invest in a country that might or might not be part of a common market within the next 5-7 years? And if you had such plans, you wouldn't be looking for expensive and potentially politically and financially unstable country going through internal and external secession such as Britain. Labour, land and running costs in Albania would be much cheaper, right?
Next, we'll notice mass migration of existing production lines. Why would for example all the Hondas, Nissans, Tatas, Toyotas, Fords or Opels keep establishing manufacturing lines in a country that might end up being subject to prohibitive customs duties on mainland continent within a decade? Why not, just in case, keep production within solid EU borders? It will be easier to sell handful of RHD cars with high import duties, than export majority of LHD cars with high duty levied.
And then will come small trader panic. Mortgages, business loans and leasings issued long term to hundreds of thousands of people who may or may not become illegal aliens over night one day soon. Tens of thousands of expats on Portugese, French and Spanish beaches sweating over possibility of forced return to cold, harsh and expensive mothership. Students refused grants and exchanges because they possibly won't be EU workers by the end of their studies.

Uncertainty. It is so good for business.

The CBI supports the vote. They want change. I highly doubt a visa will be needed for any travel in Europe unless it is for a long period or for a job. As I said before you don't even need one to visit the US now, or many other countries. It is worth looking at the Switzerland to EU treaties.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

Uncertainty. It is so good for business.

quoted for truth

 

[bluDawg]

What he says means nothing to me, I don't trust him and I really don't believe that he will go ahead with the vote.

 

[NXZT]

Equally, why is it so good?
Some facts (informed, not FACTs) for both arguments would be nice.

You can drive through Europe without Border controls, compare prices cross country, ensure certain standards in regards to consumer rights, no need to change foreign currency, study,work and retire where you want, no exchange rate risks or costs for businesses, stabilised interest rates etc etc....and this in the Europe which was riddled with wars over centuries...I think this is quite good.

 

[Nitefly]

In my crudest form:

Pros
- generally a good source of law (allowing for the fact the ECJ make it up as they go along)
- creates a level playing of trade

Cons
- nauseatingly slow to act (although regulations are immediately effectives and directives are typically swiftly implemented)
- countries like the UK are burdened by other economies

I support it in principle.

 

[v0n]

Name them.

Well... to name but few... I'm just going to throw some random stuff to one and the same pot:
- working hours and conditions, labour protection and enhanced social welfare (from equal pay legislation, minimum pay, minimum holiday entitlement, the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime all the way to smoke free working environment legislations)
- consumer protection, animal welfare in food production (also includes quotas on fishing etc), food safety and labeling, trading standards in both immediate and long distance sense, unified product safety standards
- standards of clean air and water and minimum living conditions/accessibility of medias (right to water, heating and electricity)
- continent-wide patent, trademark and copyright protection, EU-funded research and industrial collaboration
- no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the entire single market
- price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across entire eurozone, unified credit, banking, operations and transfer standards
- automatic access to health services within EU (there goes our "health tourism" myth)
- external and internal cross border policing (European arrest warrant, human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling, counter terrorism intelligence)
- unified educational, vocational and degree standards (as in this is why Spanish doctors can treat British cancer and British architects can design and erect Spanish bridges)

That's in addition to EU being about 60% of our trade, freedom of movement, study, work, retirement, land ownership across continent, cheaper data and mobile charges, sea, road and air travel while you ef about on your holiday.

Now, what has EU done to p. you off so badly?

 

[BuZ]

The UK leaves the EU everything will gradually go down hill.

Nigel Farage isn't thinking forwards; he's thinking backwards. He wants to bring corporal punishment back into schools and make the human rights worse.

EU benefits us more than anything. The main issue is USA. Not Europe.

USA is sticking their noses in our business and they're in debt with China (maybe other Countries also) more than the USA produces a year (also named GDP).

Personally, I want to stay in the EU. It makes life a lot simpler.

UKIP is the worst party created and also to add I heard Nigel Farage is a failed politics student.

 

[v0n]

I highly doubt a visa will be needed for any travel in Europe unless it is for a long period or for a job.

It's not for us to decide. Of course, there is a slight chance they will make a special case just for Britain, as a friend, you know, as friends do for other friends who throw a spanner in their economy and make 27 countries hold their budget and long term economic plans for 5 years.

As I said before you don't even need one to visit the US now, or many other countries. It is worth looking at the Switzerland to EU treaties.

You do need visa to US. It's just that one can be issued to you on the spot over there, but that's because Britain is US military ally. Nearly everyone else does need visa ahead of their visit. Even other military allies, like Poland.

 

[BuZ]

France is obligating against a new rule of the EU which is "You have to work to get money unless you're ill or have something seriously wrong with you".

This is more than I can say for the USA.

USA's democracy is the worst. Yet, they still portray it as good. If we leave the EU in 10 years time I see the free health care disappear and education as well as the dental care.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Cameron asks, What is it exactly we are choosing to be in or out of? the eu superstate.

That guy is dreaming. He says that the choice is between leaving and leading europe's foreign policy and economy. He says that we can't have a vote now because we need to wait and see what happens when Europe emerges from the "European Crisis" as it is going be a very different body... transformed perhaps beyond recognition. I think that might be a bit optimistic.

I think overall it was a reasonable speech, he outlined a very non bias argument that was non surprisingly very optimistic about Britain's control or influence within the eu. I like that idea that eu progresses on to something different that gives power back, that respects national sovereignty and so on, but again i think the vision was optimistic. Waiting a year or two to see if the vision manages to convince the eu members is better than having a prime minister who is enthusiastic about the eu.

Overall i think it is unrealistic vision and optimistic but might as well try and get the best of both, good economic influence and arrangements but without the political hegemony.

 

[starfighter]

In this world of emerging superpowers we need to group up with Europe to remain dominant. Britain alone can't compete with with the likes of the USA and in the future China, India and Brazil. We are just too small.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

If the UK wants to remain part of the single market - and I guess it does - then the UK will be retaining the vast majority of EU legislation even if it leaves the EU, because most of it is about single market regulation. The UK just won't retain its influence on creating it. Much like the current EFTA countries.

Nate

 

[delta0]

It's not for us to decide. Of course, there is a slight chance they will make a special case just for Britain, as a friend, you know, as friends do for other friends who throw a spanner in their economy and make 27 countries hold their budget and long term economic plans for 5 years.



You do need visa to US. It's just that one can be issued to you on the spot over there, but that's because Britain is US military ally. Nearly everyone else does need visa ahead of their visit. Even other military allies, like Poland.

The UK has a visa waiver programme with the US so no visa required. It is natural there will be trade agreements and other agreements including visa requirements (these will be waived). Visas are normally required for countries that may have people that try to move to that country because theirs has poor standard of living (as an example). It is there to prevent migration, there is no interest or benefit for Europe to prevent this, they are first world countries after all, as are we. UK has a huge clout in this situation, they import so much from Europe. Germany's biggest customer. Merkel has already thrown open the door for negotiating so the plan is working well. Things have to change and they know it. I can't see us leaving and i don't think we should, but they do impact on our democracy.