Poundland Girl Wins Forced Labour Ruling

Terrific news. It was a terrible policy on so many levels. Workfare has been tried many times before in many other places and proved highly ineffective; on pragmatic grounds alone, it was a cretinous policy. It was also morally bankrupt and totally unjust.
 
Dolph said:
The taxpayer shouldnt be subsidising either of them, or at least, no more than it subsidises any other activity. again, for the record, I would much prefer a non conditional benefits system, but the idea doesnt seem very popular with those who dont like the idea of personal responsibility.
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As pointed out so many times before the primary reason for rejecting your "non-conditional benefits system" idea is that the numbers for it simply don't add up. It would require a tax level of somewhere in the region of 70% even under extremely generous assumptions.
 
Mr Jack said:
As pointed out so many times before the primary reason for rejecting your "non-conditional benefits system" idea is that the numbers for it simply don't add up. It would require a tax level of somewhere in the region of 70% even under extremely generous assumptions.
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As has been pointed out to you every time, your maths and starting assumptions suck. With every conditional benefit gone and all state spending subject to a contribution from everyone, things start to make a lot more sense...
 
Dolph said:
As has been pointed out to you every time, your maths and starting assumptions suck. With every conditional benefit gone and all state spending subject to a contribution from everyone, things start to make a lot more sense...
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As always: bring you own maths then.

I'd present mine yet again but since you've never once bothered to bring a coherent response there seems very little point.
 
This story highlights for me the total lack of accountability at a governmental level that has plagued democracy for years, from failing to fulfil pledges with no repercussions whatsoever, to this macro level incident.

I don't know about you, but I find it genuinely scary that the government, the 'elected representatives of the people' can force through a policy that some time after its implementation, not even in the planning stage, is later deemed illegal. Not just a bad policy, poorly thought out and lacking in results, but illegal. This illegal policy worked its way through the system, by which any blind eye could tell it had dangerous implications, and what are the repercussions? None, policy repealed, try to screw the people again next year.

If it were any other sector of society, there would be an inquiry as to how government was able to enact an illegal policy.
 
Dolph said:
The taxpayer should not be funding someone's choice to do voluntary work, at least not while we have a conditional benefit system.
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She was doing volunteer work that had a social benefit, but could no longer do it because a jobsworth said she had to work for a private firm for free that had no social benefit to anyone apart from shareholders/ owners of the company.
 
zenf1 said:
What if you couldn't get employed by McDonalds or anywhere else? If your only option was to claim JSA so that you could live, would you think it's acceptable that you're forced to work but paid peanuts? Not everyone on JSA is on it by choice.
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You are coming at this from the wrong angle.

Now she's being paid for doing nothing, I don't see the problem with the scheme in the first place to be honest.

If anything, it should have driven her harder to find a job befitting of her qualifications, instead she used her time to get out of working at pound land.

I was made redundant before Christmas, I had every right to get signed up on the dole and sit around firing CVs off for jobs befitting of my status of regional manager.

Instead I went and saw an old employer and got my old awful job back, which is a job I despair at turning up to do every single day so far.
But what its doing is paying my bills, maintaining my standard of living, keeping my self respect and driving me like a mofo to make sure I get a job befitting of my status experience and qualifications, and when I DO get that job, ill work like a ******* to make sure I don't lose it.
 
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matdom said:
She was doing volunteer work that had a social benefit, but could no longer do it because a jobsworth said she had to work for a private firm for free that had no social benefit to anyone apart from shareholders/ owners of the company.
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+1

Irrc it wasn't so very long ago that if you were out of work doing voluntary work was actively encouraged as a way of gaining experience. I seem to remember Cameron touting volunteering as a way to create his "Big Society"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ons-big-society-is-going-nowhere-8440434.html

This scheme has nothing to do with getting people back into work, it's about moving them from one list to another.
 
DampDog said:
+1

Irrc it wasn't so very long ago that if you were out of work doing voluntary work was actively encouraged as a way of gaining experience. I seem to remember Cameron touting volunteering as a way to create his "Big Society"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ons-big-society-is-going-nowhere-8440434.html

This scheme has nothing to do with getting people back into work, it's about moving them from one list to another.
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+1

its also about the tories giving a big fat back hander to their big business fat cat backers in the form of free labour
 
Mr Jack said:
Terrific news. It was a terrible policy on so many levels. Workfare has been tried many times before in many other places and proved highly ineffective; on pragmatic grounds alone, it was a cretinous policy. It was also morally bankrupt and totally unjust.
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ARBECHT MEIN FREI
 
atpbx said:
You are coming at this from the wrong angle.

Now she's being paid for doing nothing, I don't see the problem with the scheme in the first place to be honest.

If anything, it should have driven her harder to find a job befitting of her qualifications, instead she used her time to get out of working at pound land.

I was made redundant before Christmas, I had every right to get signed up on the dole and sit around firing CVs off for jobs befitting of my status of regional manager.

Instead I went and saw an old employer and got my old awful job back, which is a job I despair at turning up to do every single day so far.
But what its doing is paying my bills, maintaining my standard of living, keeping my self respect and driving me like a mofo to make sure I get a job befitting of my status experience and qualifications, and when I DO get that job, ill work like a ******* to make sure I don't lose it.
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why were you not looking for unpaid work, there are plenty about, your post says you were looking for paid only jobs.
 
BunnyKillBot said:
This illegal policy worked its way through the system, by which any blind eye could tell it had dangerous implications, and what are the repercussions? None, policy repealed, try to screw the people again next year.
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Not exactly repealed. They'll just change the law to make it legal - like they did with the civil service pensions.

And people thought it wouldn't affect them.


First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
 
HardwareGeek said:
All i have seen about this scheme seems to involve relatively low rent companies, low skilled jobs, low wages, rightly or wrongly leads very well into creating a perception of forced labour with no real benefits.

If they could just sign up some decent companies, provide decent training and prospect of a decent position at the end would do a lot to improve public perception of the scheme.

Not saying i agree with the scheme just that i see the above as a PR problem
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THIS.

I see no problem with the scheme provided it actually does what it is set out to do which atm I believe it does not.

There needs to be more help with 'proper' training, not some doley day course down at the local youth center, training with reputable firms that actually offers jobs at the end of it, not this farce we currently have now.
 
matdom said:
why were you not looking for unpaid work, there are plenty about, your post says you were looking for paid only jobs.
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What?

You misunderstand the point.

Just because a job is rubbish (or being told you need to work in pound land is awful) doesn't mean it can't be useful.

It might not provide you with high level management experience or allow you to use your degree in experimental particle physics.

But it will give you a kick up the arse to get something better.
 
atpbx said:
What?

You misunderstand the point.

Just because a job is rubbish (or being told you need to work in pound land is awful) doesn't mean it can't be useful.

It might not provide you with high level management experience or allow you to use your degree in experimental particle physics.

But it will give you a kick up the arse to get something better.
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I agree with you, but you get paid accordingly, as should people on the scheme.
 
atpbx said:
But it will give you a kick up the arse to get something better.
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But in this case specifically it seems she was already spending her time productively, volunteering in an area relevant to what she actually wanted to do, thus gaining relevant experience. So what is the difference in paying her JSA doing this to making her give it up and work in Poundland for the same benefit...

Especially as damp dog points out, Cameron was championing the Big Society idea, the core of which was voluntary work.
 
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