Anyone ever become an atheist after believing?

[Spektor]

You do know western society is pretty much built on Christian ethics? I know numerous members of the church who go out during those bitter cold nights and offer food and shelter. That's the Christian way. That's what Christ called for.

So none believers don't do this? nor muslims? hindus? not even scientologists? hell no polytheists of ancient times popped on a pair of sandles and went handing out thermal togas of a winter?

Also if you think Jesus Christ harping on for people not to do dick things to one another was some ground breaking moral movement then unlucky, our biology and no doubt many, many unrecorded peoples merely able to intellectualize what being a social animal means from said animals point of view beat him to it by a hefty margin.

 

[Rexton]

I know numerous members of the church who go out during those bitter cold nights and offer food and shelter. That's the Christian way. That's what Christ called for.

People shouldn't and don't need god to be good. There are just as many, if not more people who live without religion who do good deeds. Unfortunately just because there are a few who interpret the "Christian way" as a good path, it doesn't help the fact that most do not.

People can be and are good to eachother without the need for a deity.

 

[DanielMMS]

That's more about you and the people that you know than the religion you associate with.

But it is not so easy to separate the two. The "religion" element - or rather our beliefs - is what brought us together in the first place and provides the impetus. Without those beliefs the groups would never have been created. Indeed, the local secular level of society has entirely failed to even attempt to help the needy (for want of a better word) instead being quite happy to sit back and allow church-going dogooders to get on with it.

 

[Castiel]

That's more about you and the people that you know than the religion you associate with.

I agree with him...locally almost all the help for the homeless, hungry, free childcare during holidays, drop in centres for the elderly and disabled are all run and/or funded by the local churches. The local churches also give up their halls for a myriad of non-religious activities that would not be able to survive without such help.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I agree with him...locally almost all the help for the homeless, hungry, free childcare during holidays, drop in centres for the elderly and disabled are all run and/or funded by the local churches. The local churches also give up their halls for a myriad of non-religious activities that would not be able to survive without such help.

Probably because everyone else is busy investigating things that matter.

...I jest.

I think this is actually very true, religious organisations do a lot to help in their communities, but is this outweighed by the bad things that come of religion? And how much of it is caused by the religions themselves.

 

[Castiel]

Probably because everyone else is busy investigating things that matter.

...I jest.

I think this is actually very true, religious organisations do a lot to help in their communities, but is this outweighed by the bad things that come of religion? And how much of it is caused by the religions themselves.

I doubt any of the issues in my community such as crime, homelessness, poverty and lack of care for the mentally ill and those in dependency really can be laid at the foot of the Churches that help them.

 

[Rroff]

Never believed myself, neither am I an atheist. I was brought up within a Christian, church going family and seen so many people who professed to believe later leaving the church and many becoming atheists that I question how many actually believed in the first place.

I've noticed a lot of people lately moving from religious or even atheist or other similiar positions towards a more spiritual one which is more where I would consider myself to be.

 

[Gilly]

I agree with him...locally almost all the help for the homeless, hungry, free childcare during holidays, drop in centres for the elderly and disabled are all run and/or funded by the local churches. The local churches also give up their halls for a myriad of non-religious activities that would not be able to survive without such help.

It may be a transparent hand of god but I've never seen anything put into our local society from the churches.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I doubt any of the issues in my community such as crime, homelessness, poverty and lack of care for the mentally ill and those in dependency really can be laid at the foot of the Churches that help them.

As I said, I was joking.

It may not be applicable to England, but certainly in Africa you could lay some of it at the church's feet.

 

[DanielMMS]

I think this is actually very true, religious organisations do a lot to help in their communities, but is this outweighed by the bad things that come of religion? And how much of it is caused by the religions themselves.

I would like to think that religion tends to be used as the excuse rather than actually being the cause. In fact, I do not like the word religion and would not consider myself religious per se. I have a set of beliefs as a result of which I do certain things, behave in a certain way, have a particular outlook and so on.

The problem is that, as with all groups, organisations etc, religious groups have a fatal flaw - they are made up of humans. And humans have an invariable tendency to create conflict and harm others.

 

[Castiel]

It may be a transparent hand of god but I've never seen anything put into our local society from the churches.

I don't know where you live, but that surprises me. Our homeless hostels and shelters, The Trussel Trust, some after school clubs, some child care facilities, preschool clubs, drug and alcohol dependency unit, drop in centres for elderly and unemployed, and a range of others are all run or helped by the local churches and religions, including the CoE, Catholics and Quakers. My son for example attends three after school activities (none of which have anything to do with religion) which are supported by the local church.

 

[Twirlywoos]

Just curious 'cause I think I'm going from atheist > monotheist > back to atheist.

Changing direction like the wind?
Means you were never a believer or had faith in the first place.

Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, God will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path. [4:137]

Build you foundations and these fly by night Athiests won't be able to unhinge you.

 

[Castiel]

As I said, I was joking.

It may not be applicable to England, but certainly in Africa you could lay some of it at the church's feet.

again, that depends on what you are trying to lay at their feet...The anti-contraception issue spreading AIDs for example, if the people actually followed the Catholic advice and abstained from sex outside of marriage then that would be as effective as contraception..however, having said that I agree that the Church (whatever affiliation or religion) is not perfect and like any NGO has its issue, especially when dealing in Africa, which has some serious and difficult problems. Even so, having spent a lot of time in places like the DRC, I have seen too many missionaries and people of religious conviction risk their lives to help those in need to dismiss them so easily (a group of Nuns surround a school so that gunmen wouldn't kill the children of a different tribe inside for example).

This doesn't mean that secular people do not also risk their lives every day for with similar conviction, but it needs to be pointed out when all we hear is the negative side these days.

 

[elmarko]

The problem is that implicit atheism in that definition is disputed and it is really attempting to engineer a broad definition that includes everyone, it is relatively new (G.H Smith 1979) and is not universally accepted as valid (Nagel).

There is significant dispute over the point that Atheism is a cognitive decision and not simply a default position requiring no input from the subject.

I am of the opinion that a baby is not born into any particular theological or philosophical position as it has yet to define and express for itself what its thoughts and ideas are...essentially, a baby may well be ingrained with a deep understanding of God or not, we wouldn't know either way as the baby has no effective way to express such complex ideas in any meaningful way, you may as well say a baby doesn't believe in Chickens.

That's kind of the point, I'm not saying a baby ascribes to any philosophical positions.

Implicit atheism is pretty narrow in it's definition, as it pretty much only includes those in isolated communities & those who are too young to understand the concept.

It's in no way to attempt to win one over from religions people, but it's worth pointing out that nobody is born with a belief in anything - implicit atheism isn't a philosophical position, it's the lack of a position (rejection or acceptance).

 

[DanielMMS]

Implicit atheism is pretty narrow in it's definition, as it pretty much only includes those in isolated communities & those who are too young to understand the concept.

I was under the impression that a child had to be old enough to understand the concepts of theism/atheism to satisfy the definition of an implicit atheist rather than too young.

 

[mattyg]

Without Religion or Ego's there would be no wars.

 

[Hodders]

To be honest this thread is full of people that:

a) Have rational logic based thought - they are the atheists

b) Jump to a conclusion with ZERO evidence that there is a god of some kind - the religious ones

Could someone in b) please explain why they don't believe in Zeus, Hecate, Mars, Ganesh etc etc. ?

 

[ringo747]

O dear not this again.

Why do people still think that religion and science are at odds?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

again, that depends on what you are trying to lay at their feet...The anti-contraception issue spreading AIDs for example, if the people actually followed the Catholic advice and abstained from sex outside of marriage then that would be as effective as contraception..however, having said that I agree that the Church (whatever affiliation or religion) is not perfect and like any NGO has its issue, especially when dealing in Africa, which has some serious and difficult problems. Even so, having spent a lot of time in places like the DRC, I have seen too many missionaries and people of religious conviction risk their lives to help those in need to dismiss them so easily (a group of Nuns surround a school so that gunmen wouldn't kill the children of a different tribe inside for example).

This doesn't mean that secular people do not also risk their lives every day for with similar conviction, but it needs to be pointed out when all we hear is the negative side these days.

Castiel, I've never doubted that these religious people do good, no doubt they act in ways which are so profoundly good that I cannot conceive of. It makes me feel incredibly happy, and sad at the same time, that people could do such things (I'm only saddened because they HAVE to do them). Do they do them for the love of their God, or because they are compassionate human beings?

I appreciate you pointing that out though, I have a tendency to only see the top layer of some things on occasion, and, although that doesn't change my perspective on religion, it does add some appreciation for the people who do such brave things on behalf of their religion.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

O dear not this again.

Why do people still think that religion and science are at odds?

How was the universe created? If it involves God, then yes.