Are people starting to lose interest in Apple?

[PhysicsMan94]

People don't buy Mac Pro's because they're good value for money. They buy them because they're the best tool for their particular job.

But that's the whole point - you can buy a better tool for the job for much less money. However, of course, there's the fanboyism that says "I can't use anything other than Apple, they are best". I've used the Mac OS and I still much prefer Windows based OS's - Windows 7 (and XP) in particular.

Buying an Apple desktop is just not worth it, in my opinion, considering you can get far better for far less and use an Apple Monitor with it if you so wish.

 

[Darryn]

But that's the whole point - you can buy a better tool for the job for much less money.

I cannot buy any Windows based computer that will even run Aperture, as its OSX only. There are Windows alternatives, of which ive tried a few, the best being Lightroom and its still IMO nowhere near as nice a workflow as Aperture. Thats where OSX for me beats Windows hands down, Workflow, everything just seems to interact with each other so much more and smoother.

 

[sbi5ar]

But that's the whole point - you can buy a better tool for the job for much less money. However, of course, there's the fanboyism that says "I can't use anything other than Apple, they are best". I've used the Mac OS and I still much prefer Windows based OS's - Windows 7 (and XP) in particular.

Buying an Apple desktop is just not worth it, in my opinion, considering you can get far better for far less and use an Apple Monitor with it if you so wish.

Depends how you define tool... Hardware wise you can buy the components in a windows PC for much cheaper, i'll give you that, but it is only half the story! You can't run OSX on it or any of the OSX only applications which form the other half of the story. So in total, if you require those applications, you can't buy a better tool for the job... that isn't fanboyism, that is fact.

There are a lot of OSX only applications that I use due to their seamless integration with each other, the OS, and internet resources etc... Combine this with finger gestures and productivity increases dramatically.

 

[lamboman]

But that's the whole point - you can buy a better tool for the job for much less money. However, of course, there's the fanboyism that says "I can't use anything other than Apple, they are best". I've used the Mac OS and I still much prefer Windows based OS's - Windows 7 (and XP) in particular.

Buying an Apple desktop is just not worth it, in my opinion, considering you can get far better for far less and use an Apple Monitor with it if you so wish.

It could easily be argued you've just displayed the "fanboyism" that you described yourself - you've said you much prefer Windows machines, so why can't Mac users say the same? I will openly say that I will not use a Windows machine out of my own will (and money) as I do prefer the Mac. Doesn't make me a fanboy - I will just buy whatever I have found to be the best for me. As with anyone else, I will willingly move away from a product/manufacturer if they don't offer what I view to be the best solution for me, and do so often (as will many here). My constant switching between iOS and Android over the past two years is my evidence of this.

As for buying a better tool for the job, as the others have said, it depends completely on what you require. And yes, you can buy faster components for a custom built machine, but I wish any business good luck getting the same level of support when this machine goes wrong (unless of course, you pay extra for it). The custom built vs. pre-built argument is just silly frankly, the reasons are obvious. It's a bit like saying that a Range Rover is ridiculously overpriced because a self-built Ultima GTR is quicker and cheaper.

Furthermore, the Mac Pro doesn't use conventional desktop parts. EEC memory, Xeons and their associated chipsets. These parts are more expensive, regardless of the performance numbers. Of course, many applications aren't going to require this, but that's beside the point. Workstation components are going to command workstation prices - you're going to find this with any manufacturer (again, obvious). I will say however, that the Mac Pro is in dire need of a refresh, which ultimately harms it's value for money.

Which leaves us with the iMac. A better value machine than virtually all of the AIO competition (I've certainly not found one that is), and one of the very few options available if you need a performance AIO. That, and it's the best product of its kind out there. The Mac mini I won't include as it isn't really a common option with the market that will consider the Mac Pro (but the iMac is).

 

[SimonR]

As a long time Mac user and apple infrastructure / gadget owner I have to say that I think that Apple started to die the day that Steve became ill. He was the genius and it was his dogmatism for detail that made the company and its products what it is. Apple is now just a dieing monolith with nobody at the top to steer it in the way that Steve Jobs did.

Apple used to make high end professional workstations for the A/V market that were better than anything else, that was a long time ago.Apple also made decent servers (X-serve) and that was a long time ago, infact Apple started to get out of the professional IT market the day that they pulled the plug on their X-Serve range.

Apple are now principally a consumer gadget manufacturer. Yes their products are fantastically engineered, even over-engineered for something with such a short product lifecycle.

The problem is that it was their attention to detail, their reliability and their innovation in the marketspace that set them apart.

Lately hey have been bugged with crappy software launches (Apple Maps anyone ?), glitches in their software (alarms not working on iphones), siri only working in the US at launch, siri directing people to brothels in China, etc etc. And lets look at the innovation, which innovation? Quite! Nothing very new since the ipad. A very disappointing ipad mini, disappointing iphone 5.

Iterations of apple products have never been bleeding edge, but they have always been solid, reliable and as people say.. apple products just work.... well they did anyway, and that is what people paid for.

Apple products were cool to own and innovated where others struggled. Now I see a plethora of smartphones from the budget HTCs to the elegant Samsung phones that do everything that the iphone does, but so much more and so much better.

I see tablets from the budget Nexus 7 to the Samsung Galaxy Notes that do what iPads do and more.

ipods and ipod touches are still king of their hill, but for how much longer?
My kids turned their noses up at ipod touches over a Nexus 7, which they love.

MacBooks, MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs are kinda meh, there are wintel machines that are as nice and as functional for far less money.

Mac Pros..I think that division of Apple just lost the plot, they are lumbering dinosaurs in urgent need of a major overhaul, trading on their legend not on their current credibility.

And that brings us to the new iMacs, if style over substance is to be found in any of Apples products it is here.

Apple are in danger of becoming the next Sony if they are not careful. Sony had so much innovation in the 80s and 90s they truly were the king of the consumer hill and they blew it because they had their head jammed so far up their own ass, that they missed what was going on around them. Now they are having to sell their Tokyo headquarters.

Apple either have to innovate, up their quality or reduce their prices or slowly their consumer, like me will drift away to shinier and cheaper things.

 

[joebingo]

But that's the whole point - you can buy a better tool for the job for much less money. However, of course, there's the fanboyism that says "I can't use anything other than Apple, they are best". I've used the Mac OS and I still much prefer Windows based OS's - Windows 7 (and XP) in particular.

Buying an Apple desktop is just not worth it, in my opinion, considering you can get far better for far less and use an Apple Monitor with it if you so wish.

Well there's a sweeping generalisation if ever I did see one.

OS X certainly takes a bit of getting used to, but for some things it is far superior to anything Windows can offer.

 

[PhysicsMan94]

Well there's a sweeping generalisation if ever I did see one.

OS X certainly takes a bit of getting used to, but for some things it is far superior to anything Windows can offer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people who buy Apple computers should be shunned - I'm just stating my opinions on the matter, and my concerns over people who may not realise they could get better system performance for less cash. I know quite a few non-tech-savvy people who just go for Apple because they think "it's cool". Obviously it's up to each person what they spend their money on, I just like to remind people from time to time that Apple is not the be all and end all of the tech market.

However, I would have course be wrong in saying that Apple products have no advantage - as I know that they do have some brilliant features that Windows computers don't and can't have. But I still believe that the huge prices that Apple sticks on their products is for the name for a large part, just like if you buy an Alienware computer. However, I do think that the Apple name is beginning to wane in power as they seemed to have lost their creative spark - and it seems this has been ever since Steve Jobs died, coincidentally.

 

[ThePirateHulk]

It works together a lot better/easier than a bunch of unrelated windows/android devices though

Have you ever tried to view your TV show library via Home Share on an iPad. This is just one example of stuff that doesn't "just work" in the Apple ecosystem. In fact, it's an absolute disaster.

 

[ThePirateHulk]

I've had three problems with Apple products over the years. Each time, I was able to walk into one of their stores and the product replaced on the spot.

I can't think of another electronic manufacturer who does the same thing. My local Samsung store is a pure sales operation.

Didn't you have to make an appointment with one of their "geniuses"?

 

[sbi5ar]

Have you ever tried to view your TV show library via Home Share on an iPad. This is just one example of stuff that doesn't "just work" in the Apple ecosystem. In fact, it's an absolute disaster.

Yes I have and I've no idea what the problem is? It 'just works' for me, very well in fact.

Didn't you have to make an appointment with one of their "geniuses"?

You make it seem like such a chore! By saying he was able to walk into a store and get a replacement I think he implied he didn't have to wait for a company to send a returns box, then waste time sending it off, then wait weeks for a fault to be diagnosed and a replacement sent back.

 

[sbi5ar]

However, I do think that the Apple name is beginning to wane in power as they seemed to have lost their creative spark - and it seems this has been ever since Steve Jobs died, coincidentally.

You think as soon as Steve died all of his input magically vanished? He will have had input in many things that we are yet to see.

 

[Neodite]

But that's the whole point - you can buy a better tool for the job for much less money. However, of course, there's the fanboyism that says "I can't use anything other than Apple, they are best". I've used the Mac OS and I still much prefer Windows based OS's - Windows 7 (and XP) in particular.

Buying an Apple desktop is just not worth it, in my opinion, considering you can get far better for far less and use an Apple Monitor with it if you so wish.

Why I went for a hackintosh Same spec as a 1k+ mac pro for around half the money.

I dont find OSX better than windows, but I do find I get more done with it instead of wasting time with games and stuff Might just be me tho lol

 

[sbi5ar]

Why I went for a hackintosh Same spec as a 1k+ mac pro for around half the money.

I dont find OSX better than windows, but I do find I get more done with it instead of wasting time with games and stuff Might just be me tho lol

If you don't find OSX better then why build a hackintosh? If you found out after building it, why not revert back to windows? (genuine questions). I know you said you don't waste time, but surely self control would overcome that?

From various threads in this sub-forum people love OSX and use it, hate it and use windows... and then there is you... Not that fussed about it but use it anyway! haha

(hope this doesn't come across as badly)

 

[Neodite]

If you don't find OSX better then why build a hackintosh? If you found out after building it, why not revert back to windows? (genuine questions). I know you said you don't waste time, but surely self control would overcome that?

From various threads in this sub-forum people love OSX and use it, hate it and use windows... and then there is you... Not that fussed about it but use it anyway! haha

(hope this doesn't come across as badly)

Well what I mean is I find Windows a more powerful OS. Something that I do not need.

I use my PC for Photoshop and web design and a media server that will stream to an ATV (When they JB ATV3 so I can put XBMC on it)

Things I like...

The workspace (With multiple desktops)
OSX seems to run faster (Not done any tests but it seems it)
Love the notification bar with sickbeard/CP and sabnzb+
Really like iMessage
Find myself being more 'Organized' with OSX, god knows how that works but it does lol.
Price. £13.99 for the OS, yes please (Yes it's legal, just against apples terms)

Just a couple of reasons. I dont 'need' windows and I find OSX more pleasant to look at.

If the programs I used was available on Linux I would probably have one of those distros full time instead tho.

 

[Amp34]

Companies such as John Lewis (admittedly resellers) are astonishingly good with customer service and their prices are not ridiculous either.

The three companies I mentioned above do not charge a premium for their customer service bar maybe JL.

Also, you get a much better "spec wise" laptop compared to a Mac when buying into Windows. And for half the price.


Just in interest, is Mac OS REALLY as good as people make it sound like? I've used iOs a lot, but not the desktop versions.

JL price match, even online prices so don't charge a premium.

Depends what you are looking for, a cheap, lower end dell or Acer will be cheaper but a like for like product will be very similar prices. See samsungs and Asuses ultra books, similar prices to the Air.

As for whether Mac OS is really as good as people make out...

Short answer: no
Long answer: it really depends on user preference.

I love OSX for web browsing (although that could be something to do with sitting on my bed rather than a seat..) and the separate desktops you can access with a swipe, however windows is the better all round OS, explorer is approximately 5 quadrillion times better than finder and in windows if you want to do anything remotely technical (like view hidden files) you don't need to go in to command straight away.

I think people are beginning to lose their loyalty and realise that they can get much better for a hell of a lot cheaper - just look at the Apple desktop tower, it costs around £3000 and has pretty substandard hardware such as GPUs like the AMD HD5450 (with limited, but expensive, upgrade options) oh and you need to pagan extra £900 or so for a monitor. So, essentially, you're looking at £4000 for the Apple logo on a piece of outdated hardware.

For just over £4000, I could get an i7-3970X with Dual SLI GTX Titans and 16GB of 2400MHz RAM all on an EVGA SR-X Motherboard with a 256GB SSD and 2 TB Mechanical HDD and a snazzy monitor.

I know which I'd prefer.

But will that machine you just bought have EEC RAM, Xeon processors (possibly multiple processors) etc.?

Mac Pros are workstation not desktop machines. Equivalent machines by the likes of Dell and HP are actually usually more expensive (looked for comparable ones in the past). Workstations are different beasts (for example spec a desktop for £10k, workstations are regularly that)...

iMacs are the basic equivalent of what you're looking for and when you add a high quality (Dell, apple, NEC etc) 2560x1440 display they come out as very similarly priced to an equivalent self built desktop.

 

[ThePirateHulk]

Yes I have and I've no idea what the problem is? It 'just works' for me, very well in fact.

Metadata tagging and ordering is all over the place but works fine on iTunes and Apple TV. I don't have my iPad with me just now so can't take a screenshot but it is essentially ordered like:

Show 1: Season 1
Show 2: Season 1
Show 3: Season 1
.
.
.
Show 1: Season 2
Show 2: Season 2
Show 3: Season 2


...and so on.

To make it worse the label under each thumb only shows "Season X" and not the actual name of the show. Given how long it takes to load thumbnails on a reasonably large library this makes it impossible to quickly browse for what you're looking for. It's a complete omnishambles.

Surely to god apple can get come consistency around metadata throughout their product range. If it works for one it should work for all.

 

[Spud21]

Don't think there is much going wrong for apple, yes the initial OMG has died out, but that's the same with all phones, the galaxy S3 is a nice phone, but it's hardly reinvented the wheel. There really isn't a great deal that can be done with phones at the moment to have a big jump forward so it will just be minor changes here or there, anything bigger than a s3 would be just bloody stupid, OLED for a phone is really unnecessary, well unless you really, really care about the depth of your blacks, as that's what OLED does it will allow LCD tv manufacturers to have a premium range, as at the top end no LCD can come close to a plasma display.

With apple, you pay for the whole package, and people are more and more retained by the service aspect, look at John Lewis, on a high street that is struggling big time, they are taking it in, because although you don't get cheap crap, what you do get is exceptional service and aftercare, and that's what people want, they don't mind paying a premium if they get the service to justify it. Samsung are pretty damn good themselfs, but they have a disadvantage as any mug can sell their stuff, if you buy a sammy tv from cirrus and get garbage service that will hurt Samsung, and as there aren't many Samsung shops around its difficult to get direct to them, if I buy and iphone from Argos and it goes wrong, I can just amble into an apple shop and get it sorted, so even though the two companies provide actually a very similar level of service, it's unlikely you'll get some numpty in a random shop buggering it up.

Companies who get this wrong will struggle, those that don't will. Apple and Samsung are pretty much untouchable in the phone market, because Samsung provide you with an exceptional product at a good price, apple provide you with an exceptional product and great service and after care for a premium. Get that wrong and it will hurt you, look at Sony, for years they were a dominant force in consumer electronics, now they are a mess as they continued to charge you for a premium product while giving you a poor product. The ps3 and soon 4 are propping up Sony massively as they have stopped making decent products but still want a shedload of money from you.

 

[OptimaLnrg]

I switched from a 3gs to a galaxy s3.

Worst decision ever. I was fed up of this bloody phone and android within a day.

 

[mame]

I switched from a 3gs to a galaxy s3.

Worst decision ever. I was fed up of this bloody phone and android within a day.

I went from 3GS to 4S to S3. Even though I could write a list of petty things I don't like about the S3, I'm still glad I didn't get the iphone 5 as it was just too similar to what I was used to. I may however find myself wanting the next iphone.

 

[sbi5ar]

I went from 3GS to 4S to S3. Even though I could write a list of petty things I don't like about the S3, I'm still glad I didn't get the iphone 5 as it was just too similar to what I was used to. I may however find myself wanting the next iphone.

Now the question I'll ask you is this... Did you move because you thought apple didn't fulfil your needs or was it more the fact you wanted something new to play with?

I suspect a lot of people fall into the latter category and that is why it might seem people are losing interest in Apple. When I was younger I jumped form phone to phone but now I'm not too fussed about the phone as such HOWEVER the iPhone does everything I want and in the design i want.