Hugo Chavez has died

satchef1 said:
Chavez upset big American money. In his first few years in power he changed foreign oil companies' cut from 84% of the barrel price to 70%, and he also reduced the amount of oil they were allowed to produce. ExxonMobil et all saw a dip in their profits overnight (at a time of unprecedented growth). He used the money the new deal raised to build houses for the poor (replacing shanties), and to provide free health care and education. In turn, this ensured he was a fairly popular figure among the poor (though not universally liked) and utterly despised by the rich immigrant elite who used to run the country. Then he set about reclaiming millions of acres of unused land, requiring landowners to sell it to the poor on the cheap. In response to an attempt to buy it's unused land, Heinz closed it's Venezuelan plantation and sacked all the workers. Chavez then sent the military to repossess the plantation and restore the workers to their jobs.

He upset the oil companies again when it came to heavy oil, proposing a guaranteed (but fixed) $50/barrel price on a 30-year contract. Venezuela would become rich, the oil companies would have a more stable income far from the worries of the Middle East and a vast supply of cheap Venezuelan oil would keep oil prices down. The deal was rejected. If Venezuelan heavy oil stays in the ground, and the US and Britain keep the middle east in turmoil, the price of oil (and oil company profits) will continue to rise.

It's the usual short termism. Venezuela is now China's largest foreign infrastructure investment - they've invested heavily in the country since around 2009, attempting to fix many of Chavez's failed infrastructure projects. As it stands, if Nicolás Maduro wins the upcoming election, it seems probable that the Venezuela's heavy oil will find it's way out of the ground via Chinese companies - it's China that's helping to build the infrastructure needed to make it happen. Time will tell if it will happen under the terms that Chavez wanted - if it does, then expect a steep drop in oil prices in a few years' time.

On the man himself; like every successful politician, he did good things and bad. There isn't a single one of them without blood on their hands. Measured against his peers, he was an idealist and an administrative failure. I do, however, admire his courage and resilience, his dedication to his ideals and principles. It didn't go to plan, but he gave socialism his best shot, and changed the lives of millions in the process (For better or worse? Either way, at least he tried to liberate Venezuela's poor).
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Fair enough, he seemed to do good in reducing the income gap.

kd
 
elmarko said:
This tbh.

While political freedom may have been suppressed, exactly the same happens here but by the backdoor.

Part of the test of a government is fulfilling their obligations to the people - that includes welfare, healthcare, education, peace, rights & freedoms.

The real "test" is if overall the people would have been better off with a faux democracy (With no quality of life improvements) or a semi-benevolent dictatorship (with some quality of life improvements).

Personally, I don't really value the concept of democracy & choice - as giving people choice only gives them the choice to pick an inferior option.
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That's what it comes down to.

Weighing up political freedoms, general freedoms and freedom from abuse etc against the general betterment of parts of society (which he did achieve) He was your typical popularist dictator by taking a group and favouring them over others and putting their need against anything good. Hardly laudable but it did achieve some good for the poorest in society.
 

If this 10min video of Gaddafi is true, then why on earth did we kill him considering many of the things this video portrays we don't have here.
 
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King Damager said:
Fair enough, he seemed to do good in reducing the income gap.

kd
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What use is reducing the income gap if all your policies did was cause a brain drain on the country, and kept the country in largely a third-world state.... in the name of 'income equality'?

They are sat on some of the world's biggest oil reserves, but oil output is down because they simple can't keep or win the engineers or expertise to extract it.
 
Robbo said:
Is he a bit of a bad guy (that he gets portrayed as)?
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yea according to what I have watched,

I remember a documentary where they went into a Venezuelan prison that was supposed to get government money but it was run by the inmates lol

edit: it was ross kemp extreme world series 2 episode 2.
its probably on youtube , its not just the prison he goes other places as well and shows how the country is failing the poor even though its not a poor country
 
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Johno please? said:
We didn't kill him, some libyan shot him.

should have been tried like Saddam imo.
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OT, but his armored convoy was attacked by coalition aircraft (French) which disabled his vehicle, injured him and killed most of his guards. He was then captured and executed by the rebels. Which is a lot easier than his female bodyguards went out *shudder*.

As for Saddam, deposing somebody who used to be your puppet then having your new puppet government try them was a complete mockery.
 
Iraklis F.C. said:
blair_1679384c.jpg


Gaddafi had good relations just before the arabic spring, especially European leaders...what do you have to say about this
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If you think that is in any way the same then you're being a tad naive...

An attempt to bring Gaddafi onside with diplomacy vs still supporting him while he was very openly killing/suppressing his population is rather different. Still its nice that in your head you think you've made some sort of point by posting that picture....
 
dowie said:
If you think that is in any way the same then you're being a tad naive...

An attempt to bring Gaddafi onside with diplomacy vs still supporting him while he was very openly killing/suppressing his population is rather different. Still its nice that in your head you think you've made some sort of point by posting that picture....
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thank you for your comment, now please tell me where have you identified that i have made a point, i posted the picture for further discuss and critic towards the stance the western world has towards proved dictators.

And to take matters further it is utter hypocrisy towards the people of democratic nations such as the UK and Greece for example to do business with dictators while blaming other leaders who do the same. What do you think gaddafi did with the money he received from the West, plant palm trees along the coast of Libya? He used them to sustain his regime.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
They are sat on some of the world's biggest oil reserves, but oil output is down because they simple can't keep or win the engineers or expertise to extract it.
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Which is why the Chinese have been investing massively in their infrastructure to improve the oil production.

RDM said:
"I agree with his political views therefore I will forgive his human rights abuses." :(
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Oh please....:rolleyes: And his human rights abuses are any different to ours, the Americans and every other political party in the world...how?
 
A big difference exists between suppressing rights for personal gain, or to help the poorest in society (I'd prefer it not to be done at all).

Almost every single nation in the world suppresses rights when it suits them (Which I disagree with), but I'd prefer it done for more ethical reasons than personal greed/material wealth acquisition.
 
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