New Pope

[Frodo1805]

The peodophiles have a new leader. Its a crazy world.

 

[Castiel]

Nor is believing the moon isn't real to David Icke, but objectively in both cases it's just stupid and can't be argued using facts, reality or rationality.

Virgins do not catch STIs through sexual contact and monogamous relationships rarely spread STIs either. That cannot really be argued.

Not really. Both issues involve sex and that's about it in terms of a connection.

The Catholic church condemns sex between unmarried couples and condemns 'unnatural' contraception between anyone. A married couple can't use contraception and unmarried couples can't have sex with or without it so they are not linked at all other thant being in the same ballpark subject area (sex)

Which is completely consistant with their view on contraception and their preference of abstaining and monogamous relationships within marriage.

I think that line of reasoning is flawed (no different to the 'I can't be racist because i know a few black people' argument) but even so who are these missions?

I did a random Google search and the first Cathlic Missionary site I came to said this....

If they don't get them they can't be handing them out can they, and call me Mr Cynical but I assume when they say they provide 'complete and accurate information' on their use they mean they tell people they can split and aren't 100% effective.

Catholic Relief Services, who are one of the largest contributors to relief AIDs missions in Africa do no provide or fund condoms, they also advise abstention and monogamous relationships etc as inkeeping with their beliefs....however contrary to your cynism they also require all their partner missions to give the following advice on condoms...

The CRS document defines the agency's position this way: "All HIV programs supported by CRS promote abstinence until marriage, and mutual fidelity within marriage.

"These behaviors are the only means that completely avoid exposure to the risk of sexually transmitted HIV infection. These specific behaviors have always been the cornerstone of the Catholic Church's teaching with respect to human sexuality.

"Additionally, CRS does not finance, distribute or promote the use of condoms. However, in line with its HIV Policy, CRS provides full and accurate information about condoms as part of its HIV activities through implementing partner agencies."

Describing what it wants to see communicated, the position paper says condoms are "highly effective" in preventing transmission of HIV when used "consistently and correctly." It cites studies showing that, when condoms were used in this manner, the HIV infection rate among noninfected partners was less than 1 per cent a year.

Source

So they offer both advice relating to relationship and sexual conduct as well as the truth about condom use in relation to their effectiveness in combating the spread of sexually transmitted HIV.

Catholics For Choice routinely fund condom distribution in HIV hit regions in Africa, as well as global campaigns and education programmes highlighting the effectiveness of condom use and more importantly highlighting their condemnation of the Vatican position on condoms as contraception. Their campaign is called Condoms4Life.

If you want an example of a mission giving out condoms the here is one:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-12-01-Africacondoms01_ST_N.htm

JOHANNESBURG — The three large blue and white boxes of condoms appeared to be the elephant in the room at the Catholic AIDS clinic, a trailer beside the church in a dusty red-soil settlement in the world's most AIDS-riddled nation.

But parish priest Rev. Didier Lemaire showed no embarrassment when asked about the stash of 600 condoms, set conveniently on an examination couch so one could grab a few on the way out the door. Lemaire said Pope Benedict XVI's groundbreaking statement about the selective use of condoms only cements what Catholic AIDS workers have said for years.

And also one of the largest causers of it in the first place. You are basically back slapping the guy who shuts the doors after he's let the horse bolt. It's rather like praising people who do community service for all the great work they do in the local area and forgetting that it's because they caused negative problems in the first place they are there to clean up their own mess.

I am no supporter of Catholic stance on contraception, I think it is short sighted and anachronistic (as do many actual Catholics), however the HIV epidemic in Africa is not the fault of Catholicism....I have already outlined other more important reasons for the situation in Africa.

 

[Castiel]

So it's changed was 10% when I was in Salzburg and we had no choice it was taken at source. Doesn't change the point about the wealth they hold and the inactivity done with it. And I am not saying they don't do some good but they've done an awful lot of wrong and could do a whole lot better. Their form continues to be shameful in regards to abuse and all the while their victims suffer they sit their in their halls of gold.

Strange, as since 1939 when this was instituted in Austria it has always been only for Catholics, it was an attempt to encourage people to leave the Catholic Church rather than fund the Catholic Church. It was and is based on Catholic registration in the diocese rather than taken from everyone. This has not changed since 1950 when the Church decided with the State to retain the tax (a decision made directly after the war, but not officially implemented until later). Even Catholics themselves can opt out and have been able to do so since the 1970s.

I would make enquiries on why you were subject to the tax if you can.

http://www.come2upperaustria.com/I+...on+in+Austria/Church+Contributions+%26+Tax/66

I will point out that I do not agree with Church Taxes, it should be up to the individual on how they support their chosen religion, either financially or otherwise.

I agree, the Church can do better, there is much to criticise, but I don't hold with this "Catholicism is inhetently evil" nonsence.

Anyway, I'm kinda bored of talking about this, so I'm going to leave it there.

 

[estebanrey]

Virgins do not catch STIs through sexual contact and monogamous relationships rarely spread STIs either. That cannot really be argued.

If I never left my house I probably wouldn't catch a cold either. The point is preaching an impractical or unrealistic goal (like 'don't have sex') is close to pointless and can't be used as a positive.

You can't just ignore practical reality and declare the basis of a principle as sensible when it flies in the face of said reality.

Which is completely consistant with their view on contraception and their preference of abstaining and monogamous relationships within marriage.

Again I disagree, the only connection between their views on sex before marriage and condoms is they both involve sex and that's about it.

Catholic Relief Services, who are one of the largest contributors to relief AIDs missions in Africa do no provide or fund condoms, they also advise abstention and monogamous relationships etc as inkeeping with their beliefs....however contrary to your cynism they also require all their partner missions to give the following advice on condoms...



Source

So they offer both advice relating to relationship and sexual conduct as well as the truth about condom use in relation to their effectiveness in combating the spread of sexually transmitted HIV.

Yet they still refuse to provide them.

It's no different to a doctor saying to a smoker, "I can't actually prescribe these on the NHS but e-cigs are far more effective quitting aids than anything Nicorette produces". It's true but still silly in the scheme of things.

Doctors and Cathlolics should both be able to advise and provide the things they say work.

Catholics For Choice routinely fund condom distribution in HIV hit regions in Africa, as well as global campaigns and education programmes highlighting the effectiveness of condom use and more importantly highlighting their condemnation of the Vatican position on condoms as contraception. Their campaign is called Condoms4Life.

Which is all well and good but they are still acting against what their paymasters in the Vatican are saying. Finding an inclusive, multiculturalist off-shoot of the BNP doesn't lessen or make 'OK' the teachings of the main group.

If you want an example of a mission giving out condoms the here is one:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-12-01-Africacondoms01_ST_N.htm

They are only advocating condom use for people who already have (or more importantly know they have) AIDS, they aren't condoning the general use of contraception but rather saying people with AIDS should use them as not to fall foul on the "Thou shall not kill" commandment. It's nothing but a back-door, loop-hole style of support of condoms.

I am no supporter of Catholic stance on contraception, I think it is short sighted and anachronistic (as do many actual Catholics)

Well you're doing a good job at pretending otherwise.

, however the HIV epidemic in Africa is not the fault of Catholicism....I have already outlined other more important reasons for the situation in Africa.

Fault is rather an emotive and subjective term. I wouldn't blame the entire existence of AIDS or the fact it exists in Africa on the Catholic Church, nor would I blame fundamental Islam for the creation of terrorism but it doesn't mean they aren't doing their utmost to promote either.

 

[Castiel]

If I never left my house I probably wouldn't catch a cold either. The point is preaching an impractical or unrealistic goal (like 'don't have sex') is close to pointless and can't be used as a positive.

You can't just ignore practical reality and declare the basis of a principle as sensible when it flies in the face of said reality.

I agree that it isn't practical, but that doesn't change the truth of what they say.

Yet they still refuse to provide them.

So does my local doctor, so does my local family planning clinic...unless you are a woman and then they are limited.

It's no different to a doctor saying to a smoker, "I can't actually prescribe these on the NHS but e-cigs are far more effective quitting aids than anything Nicorette produces". It's true but still silly in the scheme of things.

Doctors and Cathlolics should both be able to advise and provide the things they say work.

I agree, they should..but they don't.

Which is all well and good but they are still acting against what their paymasters in the Vatican are saying. Finding an inclusive, multiculturalist off-shoot of the BNP doesn't lessen or make 'OK' the teachings of the main group.

It illustrates that the Catholics on the ground are at odds with the Vatican position, however the link to the Johannesburg clinic states that the 2010 papal announcement only supports what Catholics in Africa have been doing for some time.

They are only advocating condom use for people who already have (or more importantly know they have) AIDS, they aren't condoning the general use of contraception but rather saying people with AIDS should use them as not to fall foul on the "Thou shall not kill" commandment. It's nothing but a back-door, loop-hole style of support of condoms.

Yet, the first link is giving specific information on the effectiveness of condoms, the catholics4change are conducting wide ranging advertisements condoning the use of condoms and the missions on the ground are either giving the advice on the effectiveness of condoms or are, like the above giving them out to patients and people affected by HIV.

It seems that no matter what a catholic does it would be wrong. You cant really debate logic like that I am afraid.

Well you're doing a good job at pretending otherwise.

I am in fact countering common misconceptions on the reality of what is actually happening in Africa, which is somewhat different from what people seem to think.

Fault is rather an emotive and subjective term. I wouldn't blame the entire existence of AIDS or the fact it exists in Africa on the Catholic Church, nor would I blame fundamental Islam for the creation of terrorism but it doesn't mean they aren't doing their utmost to promote either.

You think Catholicism is promoting AIDS.

Anyway as I said to Xordium, I am tired of these debates, they go nowhere and people retain their respective prejudices and opinions regardless of what is discussed, so I am out.

 

[sports_brah]

If I never left my house I probably wouldn't catch a cold either. The point is preaching an impractical or unrealistic goal (like 'don't have sex') is close to pointless and can't be used as a positive.

Why is it so unrealistic? Lots of people including myself see the value in not going around shagging a load of people.

Its like being given a whole stack of doughnuts. You don't HAVE to eat them all. People makes choices and should live by them.


If you're a Catholic, you believe in abstaining from sex until you are monogamously married. Thats it. You don't have to follow the teachings in which case its not really a Catholic issue.....

 

[Strife212]

I have heard that the new pope hid Argentine political prisoners in his house to hide them from international inspectors?

Also his bizarre speech on the Falklands islands.

 

[Frxn]

Didn't expect one to be elected so soon, then again I don't know how long it takes them usually. Not that he's really anything but a figurehead, but hopefully he does more for his church than the last one.

 

[momentimori]

So we've gone from this...

to a Pope who gave communion to the Argentinian dictator.

 

[Gerard]

Might want to look into the origins of the "nazi salute" pic before posting it as fact.....

http://divine-ripples.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/pope-nazi-salute-as-young-priest.html?m=1

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Absolutely. Benedict XVI can hardly be accused of personal preference in joining the Hitler Youth. There was no choice in the matter.

 

[sports_brah]

Nothing wrong with a good anti catholic bashing. Wouldn't be a british forum otherwise.

 

[smelly_legend]

There was me thinking it was Lionel Messi - I guess not.

 

[DaleTheWhale]

St Franky. I like it.

 

[koolpc]

God bless the new pope.

 

[Xordium]

so I'm going to leave it there.

Naughty that's Dolphs trick will you be able to resist the urge to post though for 2 weeks like he does!

 

[The__Malteser]

Did someone mention Pope Francesco?

 

[Parabellum]

Pope Francis branded Britain 'usurpers' over Falklands conflict
As Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Pope Francis once told a congregation of Argentinean veterans that those who died in the Falklands War were "reclaiming what is theirs" ..

Who the **** does this guy think he is!!

 

[Robbo]

Pope Francis branded Britain 'usurpers' over Falklands conflict
As Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Pope Francis once told a congregation of Argentinean veterans that those who died in the Falklands War were "reclaiming what is theirs" ..

Who the **** does this guy think he is!!

The man who is now the head of a massive child abuse ring... so don't expect too much.

 

[rsatd]

what are the requirements of being pope?