DWP seeks law change to avoid benefit repayments

[Deleted member 66701]

Tell me this, if your boss turned round to you and said "You know what, I don't think you're worth what I pay you. So I'm going to pay you £2 an hour from now on"

You'd accept that and continue working?

Dolph will respond with something like:-

"No, I'd get another job because if I was worth more the market would dictate the rate for my skills. Blah blah..... Self regulating.........Blah blah...........Min wage causes unemployment..........Blah blah."

As if it's that easy to get another job and that the market can be trusted not to exploit workers.............

 

[Tefal]

NMW was introduced to stop the EXPLOITATION of young workers.

Tell me this, if your boss turned round to you and said "You know what, I don't think you're worth what I pay you. So I'm going to pay you £2 an hour from now on"

You'd accept that and continue working?

No you wouldn't

indeed, and neither would the others, and given it takes at least 3 years to train us and even a few weeks production stoppage can cost hundreds of millions we're pretty safe from them trying that.

Get a skill, get a trade, get something that means you aren't simply replaceable in 5 minutes by anyone with half a braincell.

 

[aln]

What would happen out of interest in the case of where childcare had to be arranged? Would the state pay for that cost prior to the placement, after the placement or not at all.

The state should pay the childcare directly. You can't ask the employee to pay that from JSA / housing benefit.

I'd also say one should give the employees the choice in what roles they do as long as they sort it before the 6 months cut off and it doesn't necessarily need to be full time as these people are still expected to go home and look for jobs.

 

[Xordium]

The state should pay the childcare directly. You can't ask the employee to pay that from JSA / housing benefit.

By that do you mean you know factually the state should pay or that you think the state should pay?

 

[spankingtexan]

After I've been unemployed for 6 months living on handouts, feel free to do that. I'll be happy to practice what I preach. On that note, most people are well aware that an employment gap on your CV generally reflects really poorly on you, especially in lower skilled work. Refusing to join such a scheme laregly means you aren't really interested in finding work.

Work should be rewarded with a pay packet, why can't the providers offer a proper living wage? on that note, regardless of what you would or wouldn't do doesn't mean we all should follow your example, if you whish to volunteer to work for free then that's great and I don't have a problem with that.

I'm all for volunteering but you have to understand people will not respond to unacceptable demands. These Schemes should be on a voluntary basis if no real wage can be offered. People just want to be paid for working, what's wrong with that?

 

[aln]

By that do you mean you know factually the state should pay or that you think the state should pay?

Don't be obtuse.

Work should be rewarded with a pay packet, why can't the providers offer a proper living wage? on that note, regardless of what you would or wouldn't do doesn't mean we all should follow your example, if you whish to volunteer to work for free then that's great and I don't have a problem with that.

I'm all for volunteering but you have to understand people will not respond to unacceptable demands. These Schemes should be on a voluntary basis if no real wage can be offered. People just want to be paid for working, what's wrong with that?

Then what incentive would they have to go out and get a proper job?

Personally I think it's unresonable for you to prefer to live off everyone elses charity in the face of being offered an opportunity to better yourself and your chances. This is the same sort of mentality people use to suggest they shouldn't get off benefits because they'd be "earning less".

 

[MrMoonX]

No, you just missed the additional unemployment, especially youth unemployment that the minimum wage causes, in addition to opposing the measures that might help these people become employable.

Your attitude is far more arrogant, not to mention at odds with reality, than my own.

Wrong again you Tory loving nasty man, the NMW had no effect on unemployment despite all the lies propagated by the Tories before it was brought in, I guess you swallowed that bull too, as usual

People should be paid a living wage end of, this would end tax credits etc. the issue is with workfare is it put money in the pockets of the already rich by making poor people work for basically free

 

[Freakbro]

By that do you mean you know factually the state should pay or that you think the state should pay?

The client I mentioned in the other thread connected with the RAF is a Nursery. Just recently they provided temporary child care for someone being sent on a 3 week course, not this work fare scheme specifically, but I have invoiced a division of the council for the cost

 

[Dolph]

Wrong again you Tory loving nasty man, the NMW had no effect on unemployment despite all the lies propagated by the Tories before it was brought in, I guess you swallowed that bull too, as usual

People should be paid a living wage end of, this would end tax credits etc. the issue is with workfare is it put money in the pockets of the already rich by making poor people work for basically free

The low pay commission disagree with you, especially where youth unemployment is concerned

so do the ifs, when you look at downturn employment impacts, as opposed to impacts from introduction to date.

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5412

 

[Freakbro]

The low pay commission disagree with you, especially where youth unemployment is concerned

so do the ifs, when you look at downturn employment impacts, as opposed to impacts from introduction to date.

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5412

Do you just hope people won't read the links, because that one doesn't say anything like that at all

I especially like the last line

any causal interpretation of them might be compromised by the presence of concomitant policies that might have been correlated with the 'bite' of the NMW.

So any inference might be correlation not causation?

 

[spankingtexan]

Don't be obtuse.



Then what incentive would they have to go out and get a proper job?

Personally I think it's unresonable for you to prefer to live off everyone elses charity in the face of being offered an opportunity to better yourself and your chances. This is the same sort of mentality people use to suggest they shouldn't get off benefits because they'd be "earning less".

A living wage is all the incentive they need and most people are trying to get work, they should not have to be forced to work for free, personally I think it is unreasonable to demand people work for free for the likes of poundland or anyone else who's only intetion is to exploit the free labour.

This is the same sort of mentality the masters had in the slave trade although I know this isn't whip and chain stuff and whish to distance it from that, but the end result is the same, FREE FORCED LABOUR. the reason I labled it Modern day slave labour if you would care to read the other thread dealing with forced labour.

PAY THEM A LIVING WAGE.

I hope the DWP fail in their attempt to retroactively change the law and that they pay back those claiments who were unlawfully deprived of their benefit.


http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

 

[Dr Jack]

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5412

Are you hoping that people won't read your link? Don't have access to the paper? Haven't read it yourself?

In fact, the paper's data suggests a very small increase in employment and decrease in unemployment due to the national minimum wage. One key quote

In our companion report (Dolton et al., 2009), we report the estimates of
the average impact of the NMW on youth employment (ages 16 to 24) over
the full sample period. The conclusion from these is that, overall, there is
little evidence of any significant association between area NMW toughness
and the youth employment rate averaged over the sample period.

 

[MrMoonX]

Are you hoping that people won't read your link? Don't have access to the paper? Haven't read it yourself?

In fact, the paper's data suggests a very small increase in employment and decrease in unemployment due to the national minimum wage. One key quote

Dolph = Lawyered

 

[V4NT0M]

Tax avoidance is bad, not paying people for working is good...

Wut.

 

[Dolph]

Are you hoping that people won't read your link? Don't have access to the paper? Haven't read it yourself?

In fact, the paper's data suggests a very small increase in employment and decrease in unemployment due to the national minimum wage. One key quote

Perhaps if you had quoted my full post, you would have read the caveat about recent rather than over the full period. you just quoted something I had already acknowledged...

 

[Dr Jack]

Perhaps if you had quoted my full post, you would have read the caveat about recent rather than over the full period. you just quoted something I had already acknowledged...

The report does not support that assertion either. Neither does referenced Dolton paper for that matter.

Have you read the paper you linked, Dolph?

 

[[bgcb]REPO_MAN]

Some of the attitudes in this thread are digsusting.

As if the Government somehow owes a bunch of workshy chavs something..

NEWSFLASH, do you think reputable companies want a bunch of council estate dwellers messing around and ruining their business?

Its LOLworthy how many people think that these JSA scummers are actually DOING things that are:- a) of benefit to the company, and b) worthy of minimum wage.

Why do you think so many people now employ eastern Europeans?

They turn up, do the job, show respect, and work hard. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of these JSA scroungers.

The overwhelming overture, is "IM TOO GOOD FOR WORKING IN POUNDLAND, GIMME BETTER JOB COS I DESERVE IT"

Its sickening. People should be grateful that a corporation even wants to waste their own staffs time and money on these losers.

Nothing riles me more than this attitude which seems to singlehandedly be brought about by a Labour Education.

The last laugh will be on the other side of the channel, as the whole of Europe sees that we have raised a bunch of spoilt, lazy, rude, self entitled, arrogant, useless bunch of thickos.

 

[Dr Jack]

Despite Dolph's inability to support his own argument with, you know, facts; it remarkably seems he does have a small amount of point. According to the analysis of Dolton and Bondibene (The international experience of minimum wages in an economic downturn) a 10% increase in the minimum wage during an economic downturn does produce a 2-3% increase (relative not absolute) in the youth unemployment.

So, there is some evidence that raising the minimum wage during a downtime has a small effect on youth unemployment.

 

[mmj_uk]

Yes Repo_man I hear the Spaniards with their 50% youth unemployment are laughing at the "lazy Brits", you shouldn't even comment on such a thread with so much ignorance towards the reality of what is happening.

 

[Freakbro]

Despite Dolph's inability to support his own argument with, you know, facts; it remarkably seems he does have a small amount of point. According to the analysis of Dolton and Bondibene (The international experience of minimum wages in an economic downturn) a 10% increase in the minimum wage during an economic downturn does produce a 2-3% increase (relative not absolute) in the youth unemployment.

So, there is some evidence that raising the minimum wage during a downtime has a small effect on youth unemployment.

Can you remind me when the last time the min wage was raised 10%, let alone specifically during an economic downturn