Supplements the debate/discussion thread

I've been using TheProteinWorks 'The Works' post-workout protein mix and their 'Raze' pre-workout.

What I was using before:
- Post-workout: Whey isolate, BCAA+, creatine and fruit juice.
- Pre-workout: Creatine, fruit juice and a shot of espresso.

The Works:

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- I originally found it was way too sickeningly sweet. That was because I used skimmed milk (as I did with plain whey). That was a mistake; it is much less sweet with just water and still drinkable. Still too sweet but doesn't make me vom.
- I find that my recovery times are coming way down with The Works. Noticed after about 4 workouts.

Raze:

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- I bought it was I am just curious and like the idea of supplements probably more than I need. However, the effects of this were really surprising. It's easier to do those most difficult final reps and it is easier to go harder for longer; whether that's running or lifting.
- I've noticed a significant positive difference in my ability to do big exercises; squats, lifts, pull ups.
- Either it makes me sweat more and/or I am 'going harder'.
 
Hatter The Mad said:
I've been using TheProteinWorks 'The Works' post-workout protein mix and their 'Raze' pre-workout.

What I was using before:
- Post-workout: Whey isolate, BCAA+, creatine and fruit juice.
- Pre-workout: Creatine, fruit juice and a shot of espresso.

- I bought it was I am just curious and like the idea of supplements probably more than I need. However, the effects of this were really surprising. It's easier to do those most difficult final reps and it is easier to go harder for longer; whether that's running or lifting.
- I've noticed a significant positive difference in my ability to do big exercises; squats, lifts, pull ups.
- Either it makes me sweat more and/or I am 'going harder'.
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Just to put the brakes on your train of thought...

Recovery will be significantly improved after the first four sessions as your body and muscles get used to the movements and adapt repair accordingly. However, cabs and protein will be useful after a workout, but this is no different than for any food in general (Carbs are more critical from a recovery perspective).

The pre-workout contains a bucketload of glucose complexes and caffiene which is giving you the hit: the amino acids in there do not have an immediate effect beyond taurine (to a degree) and beta alanine (this just causes parasthesia, which is often mistaken fo r"energy")

TL;DR

Good that you're getting improved recovery, but this would be the case regardless, assuming a decent and appropriate diet. Which leads me to suspect your diet isn't great?

And you probably don't need the pre-workout as a pre-workout, but the amino acids and compounds in there will be useful over a period of weeks rather than immediately before a workout. :)
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Acknowledged - I've had about 20 workouts so far. I meant to say that I had been using 'Raze' for the last four of them.
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I would question the need for any pre-workout sups at all, especially so new in to training.

I use them very infrequently and find them very useful when i have. Jack3D(the old type) and Craze both had a posative effect on my training sessions when i used them, but i dont use them just because i was training.

Hopefully you dont "need" to take the pre-workouts just because you train, but if your taking them for extra motivation to get you in the gym and training, i would be concerned.
 
Syla5 said:
I would question the need for any pre-workout sups at all, especially so new in to training.

I use them very infrequently and find them very useful when i have. Jack3D(the old type) and Craze both had a posative effect on my training sessions when i used them, but i dont use them just because i was training.

Hopefully you dont "need" to take the pre-workouts just because you train, but if your taking them for extra motivation to get you in the gym and training, i would be concerned.
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Interesting, so you think that my feeling that I can push myself just a bit more is simply psychological and not physiological?
 
Psychological differences will have a much bigger impact on your lifting then a pre-workout.

I am not saying they dont work, i am very much an advocate at using them at the right time, every session just seems to much, kind of like "i must take this or i am going to do rubbish, if i do rubbish whats the point".
For someone who has only been training for 4-6 weeks ( based on 3-4 sessions per week @ 20 sessions) there is no stable marker to judge against, you wouldnt be close to hitting any kind of plateaus or limits, and you could quite easily be misunderstanding newbie gains improving your sessions over and above the pre-workouts.

I am not saying dont use them, i am not saying they dont work, i am merely asking do you really need them at this point?
 
MoNkeE said:
But where do you stop? :p ;)
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I take a break during holidays and down time.

This is just my personal take on it. If it means over a year I can be adding a few Kg on a 1RM, then it's worth it.
 
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LiE said:
I take a break during holidays and down time.

This is just my personal take on it. If it means over a year I can be adding a few Kg on a 1RM, then it's worth it.
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Yes but your at a very different stage of training, where the quantitative effects of a prework out will actually account for something.
 
Been taking my beta alanine for a week now and starting to see the effects after upping the dose from 2.5g (which is says on the packet) to 3.5 and to 4g today. I skim read a few threads on BBfourms I thing and some say you should take 4-7g for a good few weeks until you load up on it then you can drop the amount to around 3g Is this what I should be doing? How much should I really be taking to get the best out of it? Taking it with one of my fat burners, 5g creatine and 3g taurine pre workout.
 
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