National Military Service

Xordium you make a good point regarding education, but one goes with the other, if you haven't bothered at school, then some form of regimental correction may help, and I think would help the majority of society.

Do you think thought that children in Norway, Sweden and Finland etc are more motivated to learn or are they appropriately engaged to learn by a motivated and supported (and respected) staff who have sufficient time to spend with the children because they have class size ratios to afford them the opportunity to stimulate and engage children.

There was some interesting experiment done about 10 years ago by a few Royal Marines with children with ADHD where they effectively beasted the little blighters to the verge of exhaustion and strangely enough their behavioural oddities settled down ... hardly shocking as they were on the verge of physiological collapse. :p But it did work!
 
Pardon the cynicism but of those 20 professionals how many of them would have been exempted from national service due to the further education/something lined up after school?

I often wonder about how many of those who are barking for National Service are prepared to have a go themselves. Furthermore, those who are screaming to bomb Iran/Argentina/North Korea/someotherfunnylookingpeople are prepared to go out there themselves.

Not many, I expect.
 
Not true all the evidence shows a child from a poor background at a good school will overtake a child from a good background at a poor school by the age of eight.

There has been some recent studies showing that good parents with a poor school outperform poor parents with a good school. (Poor and good in this case relating to educational engagement). The quality of the school made less difference to the outcome than you would expect. Surprised me too.
 
No, it would be the groups willing to use force to gain power. Force works. It might not be nice, but that's how it is.

There are situations in which the only way to peace is to force it on people, Pax Romana style. If <insert group here> is willing to use guns and bombs to kill any who openly oppose them and suppress opposition through fear, then they will come to power if there isn't an effective opposition to them, and that requires an armed force. If <insert group here> is eager to do some mass slaughter "cleansing" for ethnic, religious and/or political reasons, stopping them in the short term requires greatly superior force, enough to prevent them doing it. "Kill those people and we kill you" is ugly, but in some situations it's the only thing that works. Long term requires deeper changes, but that's not going to bring the dead back to life.

What you're proposing is an international military spanning dozens of countries without military training in those countries, which can't work unless there is far more unification between all those countries than currently exists. The most workable solution at the moment is, as it always has been, alliances.

I'm trying to find a quote and failing. It's something someone said to someone else after hearing a third person propose disarmament, something along the lines of him being a good man, but until all men are like him we must keep our swords sharp.

The quote is from Ben Hur, a man is telling Ben Hur to put aside his vengeance and take a path of peace instead, as he leaves to continue his journey to find Jesus....Ben Hur and his companion remark:

“He is a good man. But until all men are like him, we must keep our swords sharp and our intentions true.”
 
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There has been some recent studies showing that good parents with a poor school outperform poor parents with a good school. (Poor and good in this case relating to educational engagement). The quality of the school made less difference to the outcome than you would expect. Surprised me too.

But the study (I am sure you are aware of the one I am talking about) did attempt to account for the factors. And it shouldn't shock you - all schools have kids that pass and fail. My lad goes to a so called "poor" school although I thought it was the right one for him and I believe I made the right choice.

My contention was more that these kids are damned - they are not - we as a society shouldn't just give up on them and presume they will fail because their parents don't meet whatever.

(Hope the training for you is going ok BTW. I finally got everything sorted bit of a faff though)
 
I worked hard to be in the military, and am working hard to this day. I would not want to work with some scrote who couldn't give 2 ***** about what he is doing.

We all have to rely on each other to make sure we get the job done, it just takes one person to balls this up - and out of the people that want to do the job, you can guarantee it will be the person who was forced to join.

Are you proud to serve? Are you 'being the best'? Sounds like you have invested a lot of yourself in your chosen profession.
 
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Are you proud to serve? Are you 'being the best'? Sounds like you have invested a lot of yourself in your chosen profession.

Not too sure how it's relevant - but I think everyone who works in the armed forces are proud to serve, no matter how much they moan!

I, as most, have invested a lot of my life to work in the military.
 
Huh? Do you disapprove of thinking? Is it only allowed to be done within limits? Within certain imposed restrictions? Everyone's voice should be stifled otherwise? What are these guys fighting to protect?

There's nothing wrong with open mindedness, but I don't think we've really seen that so far. Hence the joking criticism.
 
I'm happy with that as long as I get paid and can shoot back. :)

We'll chain them to the spot it would gain the approval of the forums especially if they are immigrant, benefit scroungers, who used to work in the city, before getting a golden public sector pension, fat, Daily Mail reading 'scrotes.
 
I often wonder about how many of those who are barking for National Service are prepared to have a go themselves. Furthermore, those who are screaming to bomb Iran/Argentina/North Korea/someotherfunnylookingpeople are prepared to go out there themselves.

Not many, I expect.

Hi Simpletom, my point wasn't to ship people off to go hunting and killing others. It was a way of finding something positive for people to do instead of being sat at home recieving money for nothing, when there really isn't anything physically or mentally holding them back other than lazyness. As mentioned it was aimed at those who were doing nothing, and it wasn't limited to combat and armed services, it was a national service, so anything that benifits the country.

I whole heartidly agree with you in that, if you propagate the shipement of others to fight in wars - you yourself should be prepared to do that!

My thread wasn't meant to be about wars and fighting, more about helping people find direction.
 
Surely then rather than waiting till they need such drastic interventions it would be better to give them a sufficient toolset to go into the world and be sufficiently motivated to make a go of it. It's rather like bolting the stable door etc.
 
I know the OP isn't just talking about Military National Service but my Dad had to do it between 1957 to 1959 and he reckons that the idiots (chavs) who went in came out with even worse attitudes because they now thought they were hard.
 
But the study (I am sure you are aware of the one I am talking about) did attempt to account for the factors. And it shouldn't shock you - all schools have kids that pass and fail. My lad goes to a so called "poor" school although I thought it was the right one for him and I believe I made the right choice.

My contention was more that these kids are damned - they are not - we as a society shouldn't just give up on them and presume they will fail because their parents don't meet whatever.

The point of the study was that parental attitudes to education tend to matter more than the establishment itself. Of course it is somewhat self perpetuating as the parents that give a damn tend to try and get their child into the better schools whilst those that don't just pick the one nearest. Anecdotal I know but my alleged step sister did just that, 3 schools in town, 1 poor, 2 average and she chooses the poor one for her kids as it is just across the road so less hassle for her in the morning!


(Hope the training for you is going ok BTW. I finally got everything sorted bit of a faff though)

Don't start until September, though I have just passed my Literacy and Numeracy key skills tests so that is another hurdle over! Just need a 2:2 on my degree now! (Which shouldn't be too if I can get over my malaise towards my dissertation.)
 
Not too sure how it's relevant - but I think everyone who works in the armed forces are proud to serve, no matter how much they moan!

I, as most, have invested a lot of my life to work in the military.

I was just wondering how much brainwashing and military propaganda invariably must be swallowed by men training for and willing to enter combat, and potentially die for someone else's idealism. I've have no doubt it must take a lot of conditioning, as well as continual motivation, particularly for infantry men. I'm not really sounding coherent here - I'm basically wondering how much is manipulation of behaviour by bolstering self esteem - meeting and exceeding goals, physical fitness, being part of a community of like-minded thinkers, socialising, giving a sense of identity, of self worth, of a purpose and meaning in life, get to visit other countries, cultures, a sense of helping people and sense of personal responsibility for bringing about positive change; potentially all ultimately for the purpose of being used by someone who is far better off than you to preserve their wealth, resource, power and general wellbeing. With a very real threat of death it seems to be that you would really need to instill that sense of pride deeper than you would with most other jobs or professions. And it starts with Action Man toys, or a cool advert on tv. It's just interesting.

Barrage over. Tie me up and start shooting. No seamen please.
 
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