Girl found dead in house with dogs 'out of control'

[elmarko]

Because they're delusional.

Indeed.

Ignoring thousands of generations of selective breeding is utterly stupid, while the temperament may be almost as good - they have the capacity to cause fatal injury.

I love dogs, I really do - but they are not all equal in how much damage they can do if they do turn (which all have the capacity, just like like humans).

 

[SexyGreyFox]

My home town, I know the owner of the dogs. Can't understand why she would have such dogs and so many of them. Didn't know the young girl, but know her relatives. Such a sad loss.

It still doesn't answer whether the woman was 'stupid' and used the dogs as weapons.
In the good old fashioned OCUK way, posters like to fill in the blanks and saying on Facebook that one of her dogs was "protective" and "didn't like youngsters" does not make her stupid. And just because her dogs bark when people walk past does not make her stupid or the dogs are weapons. I can walk down my street and at least 3 dogs go mental when you walk past.
The likelihood is that she will be found to be Jeremy Kyle fodder with dogs she couldn't take care of but at this present time there is no proof.

Oh, and I gave my 7 year old 'baby' Cocker Spaniel away the first time she growled at my 1 year old.
No dog should ever be left alone with kids.

 

[covenantuk]

No-one without a lot of experience should own 5 dogs and especially not leave them with children. The pack mentality can quite easily develop and they can even turn on a well-known human in a bid to establish a higher position in the pack. Even if the alpha is there it can quite easily be game over. It happens surprisingly often.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

Some dogs have traits bred into them and even if buried beneath the surface are still there. My neighbour has a Staffie, which is a lovey pleasant quiet dog. But when you give it a ball or bone it destroys it in seconds because it's just a strong dog. It always crosses my mind what it could do to his two toddlers if things went wrong. Dogs can't tell you they're in pain or grumpy, if a child pulled an ear or a tail that may well be enough. It only takes once..

Or not bred out of them. The point is all dogs have the killer instinct. No matter how much its buried beneath conditioning, or in the case of this tragedy, apparently not buried enough, its still there under the surface.

Case in point my mothers springer spaniel, not known for being a "dangerous" breed, he was the perfect family pet really, he really wouldn't hurt a fly as the saying goes... even if another dog went for him he didn't react at all...

...except for cats. If he saw a cat he would go for it, and I mean if the cat couldn't escape and I wasn't holding his lead I've no doubt if he caught it it would be curtains for the cat. He wanted them dead, no two ways about it. Every dog has that instinct, once that switch is flipped, and if its a human that flips it, then lord help them. And though he was only a springer I was amazed at how strong he was he could knock you off your feet if he had a mind too. Only 9 or 10 stone, but it was pure muscle.

 

[Angilion]

[..] And though he was only a springer I was amazed at how strong he was he could knock you off your feet if he had a mind too. Only 9 or 10 stone, but it was pure muscle.

Eh? A 9 or 10 stone springer spaniel?

I agree with your point about the strength of dogs, though. We had a cairn terrier when I was at home. He only weighed 15 lbs, but even at that weight he could pull pretty hard when he had his feet firmly planted. The labrador next door when I was a kid was about 6 stone and he could have dragged a big man around.

 

[Rroff]

Case in point my mothers springer spaniel, not known for being a "dangerous" breed, he was the perfect family pet really, he really wouldn't hurt a fly as the saying goes... even if another dog went for him he didn't react at all...

...except for cats. If he saw a cat he would go for it, and I mean if the cat couldn't escape and I wasn't holding his lead I've no doubt if he caught it it would be curtains for the cat. He wanted them dead, no two ways about it. Every dog has that instinct, once that switch is flipped, and if its a human that flips it, then lord help them. And though he was only a springer I was amazed at how strong he was he could knock you off your feet if he had a mind too. Only 9 or 10 stone, but it was pure muscle.

Thing is - while its a gross generalisation - springer spaniel is much easier to man handle and or intimidate into backing down, many breeds will realise they've done something wrong and back off of their own accord (tho again thats a huge generalisation) a breed like a staffy once they get their teeth into something it has a tendency to be another matter entirely.

I think part of the problem is that atleast in this country the Staffy breed is very much in motion development wise, more recent examples that people posting in this thread will have experience of are probably bred from more even tempered examples and have been brought up in a very different environment than those further down the line (nuturing does play a big role here too) and some will be from less well bred backgrounds, brought up by less caring people, etc. and you can't lose sight of where the breed originates from or be so naive as to think it doesn't make a difference.

 

[Locky]

comon everyone. The estate where this happened is full of low lifes. Low lifes with dogs that are capable of killing and the type of people that should not own them.

Until the politians legislate against low lifes owning these type of dogs this will continue to happen.

Yes these dogs (and many others) are capable of serious damage in the wrong hands. It is the owners at fault and very rarely the dogs themselves.

So why all bicker and fight over it, well it is the internet and the level of argument here is what I expect to find on such estates.

Get your heads out of the sand and see it for what it is. A crap estate, with crap families with no respect or intelligence for their actions = Darwin in action.

Wish this stuff didn't make the papers really.

What a moronic post.

 

[The IPB]

Not only are they predisposed to certain behaviours they were bred over many years to have certain behaviours and characteristics...

Fighting dogs were bred to fight other dogs, dog on human agression wasn't tolerated. It wasn't good to have your own dog attacking you during or after a fight.

The goal is to breed a dog that will attack animals but is docile and affectionate toward humans. All breeds with a character suitable for protecting humans and fighting wild animals may be considered for dogfighting.

From wiki.

 

[antijoke]

So does anyone know how the hell she got over run by these dogs in the first place?

Seems most odd.

 

[FinglisHobbit]

Generalisations that all Staffie owners use their dog to somehow enhance their social status amongst their ASBO acquaintances are absurd. Many Staffie owners are not unemployed, don’t have an ABSO, aren’t thugs, etc, etc (I may have missed off a few more stereotypes there).

I know several people with Staffies (including young familes) who have put time and effort in to raising their dogs correctly (and by correctly I mean they don’t see them as status symbols, weapons, etc). I don’t deny Staffies are capable of aggression (as is any dog). I also lived on a “Jeremy Kyle estate” for a time and knew of people who owned Staffies (and other breeds deemed “dangerous”) and did try to bring out their hostile nature. Sometimes this worked, but the majority of times it didn’t work and the dog ended up in kennels to be rehomed.

The loss of a young life is always tragic. Maybe more-so in this case where it didn't have to happen. The fault does lie with the owner (chav or not). If you are going to own any dog it’s your responsibility to support its development. Staffies (or any other breed of dog) who make the news in such tragic circumstances are raised by people who neglect them of time, training, and proper care. This is not the dog’s fault.

 

[elmarko]

Fighting dogs were bred to fight other dogs, dog on human agression wasn't tolerated. It wasn't good to have your own dog attacking you during or after a fight.

From wiki.

Skilfully missing the point.

A large dog bred to kill (be that other dogs, other animals or humans) has a much greater capacity to cause significant harm to a human or kill a child.

 

[Name]

So does anyone know how the hell she got over run by these dogs in the first place?

Seems most odd.

she was eating a steak burger or something

+ 4 dogs, did you see the size of one of them? was almost larger than me :O

she was only 14 bless her, what a way to go

 

[mcast]

Generalisations that all Staffie owners use their dog to somehow enhance their social status amongst their ASBO acquaintances are absurd. Many Staffie owners are not unemployed, don’t have an ABSO, aren’t thugs, etc, etc (I may have missed off a few more stereotypes there).

Whether you like it or not these type of dogs are primarily owned by chavs/neds. I've not seen them ever be violent, so I can't comment on that.

I'm basing this entirely on what I see on a daily basis. Maybe it's only up here in Scotland they're owned by neds and down in England they're owned by lovely middle class families.

 

[FinglisHobbit]

I agree I was just saying that not all Staffie owners are chavs as previous posts in this thread seem to believe. The perception of the breed has been damaged by chav owners.

 

[reefoid]

Whether you like it or not these type of dogs are primarily owned by chavs/neds. I've not seen them ever be violent, so I can't comment on that.

I'm basing this entirely on what I see on a daily basis. Maybe it's only up here in Scotland they're owned by neds and down in England they're owned by lovely middle class families.

I own a staff I got from a rescue home. Fortunately he had no major issues and after some training he's a fantastic dog. Would I leave him alone with a child? No. But then even if he was a much smaller breed of dog I wouldn't either.

Round my way the majority of staffs I see are owned by perfectly respectable people and they are well behaved. Are there also some chavs round here with them? Yes, and some of them can be a nightmare with dogs not on leads and crapping in the street without clearing it up. But there are also owners with other breeds who are even worse so its not specific to SBT's.

But as always with this kind of thing, its the minority that cause the problems and the media/general public then generalise so that we get views such as in this thread that all SBT owners are scumbags.

Banning more dog breeds is not the answer. All that will do is make dodgy owners move to a different breed, or cross breed to get round it. There needs to be more education, more controls and better legislation.

By the way, what's a "ned"? Never heard that before. Is it a scottish chav?

 

[andi]

So does anyone know how the hell she got over run by these dogs in the first place?

Seems most odd.

No one will ever really know, she'd been left alone in the house with the dogs while her mate went to a neighbour's. When her mate returned, she was on the floor and the dogs were going wild.

The press are talking about her eating a meat pie, but that seems to have come from the interview of a local kid, and he can't possibly know what he says happened. Whether its correct or not, I'm not sure.

 

[mcast]

No one will ever really know, she'd been left alone in the house with the dogs while her mate went to a neighbour's. When her mate returned, she was on the floor and the dogs were going wild.

The press are talking about her eating a meat pie, but that seems to have come from the interview of a local kid, and he can't possibly know what he says happened. Whether its correct or not, I'm not sure.

The way I read it, the dead girls friend (whos parents owned the dogs) went next door to get a pie and left her alone. She was left in the house with the dogs locked in the kitchen, she apparently opened the kitchen door and they attacked her.

A 14yo girl isint exactly tiny, I just can't figure out how they killed her, a toddler or something I can see it.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

A 14yo girl isint exactly tiny, I just can't figure out how they killed her, a toddler or something I can see it.

Are you mad?

 

[reefoid]

A 14yo girl isint exactly tiny, I just can't figure out how they killed her, a toddler or something I can see it.

Seriously? Four fully grown, strong and aggressive dogs could easily overpower a fully grown man, let alone a 14 year old girl.

 

[andi]

The way I read it, the dead girls friend (whos parents owned the dogs) went next door to get a pie and left her alone. She was left in the house with the dogs locked in the kitchen, she apparently opened the kitchen door and they attacked her.

A 14yo girl isint exactly tiny, I just can't figure out how they killed her, a toddler or something I can see it.

That's closer to the story as I understood it.

These were big, powerful dogs. 1 would have overpowered her, let alone 4.