Strict Liability Law - Drivers to be auto blamed for all accidents with cyclists

[grudas]

All of the above is unsustainable in London conditions. Most lights in rush hour traffic change for 5-7 seconds. If everyone left a gap of 5 meters around them only single cars would go through junctions at the time. On busy and narrow lanes, around Holborn, Victoria or Parliament Square I use my front sensors in rush hour to be no more than 30cm from car in front when stationary, just so at least three or four cars can fit between yellow box junctions and go through light changes in one go.
But I see red bus drivers in London now doing this tail to front thing, where they only leave about two inches of space from bumper of the bus, lorry or car in front after they stop in traffic specifically so the wobbly Boris bikers and "dancing lycrobats" cannot filter through the gap in front and start "staging" all over the place or position themselves in such way as to prevent slow bus from turning or going through short light change.

bus drivers are alright.. i cycle through oxfords street, tottenham court road etc everyday and tbh bus drivers are the best when it comes to it mini cabs are a bit pushy.. but the worst have got to vans.. outside central they seem to be alright though..

 

[chriscpritchard]

I think your getting the law mixed up with the highway code, going through a red light is not illegal.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/36 - the key part there being "driving or propelling a vehicle"

 

[Deleted member 66701]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/36 - the key part there being "driving or propelling a vehicle"

For the purposes of the RTA though a cycle is not a vehicle. Just like a horse is not a vehicle.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192

General interpretation of Act.E+W+S(1)In this Act—

“cycle” means a bicycle, a tricycle, or a cycle having four or more wheels, not being in any case a motor vehicle,

 

[One More Solo]

But the police can give on the spot fines for running red lights to cyclists? How does that work?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

For the purposes of the RTA though a cycle is not a vehicle. Just like a horse is not a vehicle.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192

Are you not confusing Vehicle and Motor Vehicle in the act? I'm fairly sure a bicycle is defined as a vehicle. There are parts of the act that only apply to motor vehicles, but traffic signals apply to all vehicles.

But I see red bus drivers in London now doing this tail to front thing, where they only leave about two inches of space from bumper of the bus, lorry or car in front after they stop in traffic specifically so the wobbly Boris bikers and "dancing lycrobats" cannot filter through the gap in front and start "staging" all over the place or position themselves in such way as to prevent slow bus from turning or going through short light change.

What is 'staging'?

 

[RDM]

A cycle is not defined in the legislation as a vehicle though.

From the Highway Code;

69

You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10(1)
...
71

You MUST NOT cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red. Some junctions have an advanced stop line to enable you to wait and position yourself ahead of other traffic (see Rule 178).
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36(1)

https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82

Seems pretty clear that cyclists have to obey traffic lights too.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Classic confilct between the Highway code and the RTA

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Classic confilct between the Highway code and the RTA

See my response above. Motor Vehicle and Vehicle are different definitions in the RTA. One is a subset of the other.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

What is 'staging'?

Moving to the front of the queue, crossing the white line and placing yourself in a position so you can set off and not be impeded or endangered by other motorists.

It's what ASL's (advanced stop lines) are attempting to formalise.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

See my response above. Motor Vehicle and Vehicle are different definitions in the RTA. One is a subset of the other.

I can't find that reference - please can you link or quote it?

 

[v0n]

What is 'staging'?

Moving to the front of the queue, crossing the white line and placing yourself in a position so you can set off and not be impeded or endangered by other motorists.

It's moving to the front of the queue, in front of other vehicles so you can set off BUT not dismounting from pedal mounts or touching the ground with your feet to stabilise the bike. Instead individual or group of individuals ( I believe it's called peloton) reach the ASL or stop line and perform this wiggly flamenco like dance routine constantly moving few inches back, forward and to the sides for several minutes, often with their pelvis in unflatteringly tight lycra shorts dry humping in the air.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

It's moving to the front of the queue, in front of other vehicles so you can set off BUT not dismounting from pedal mounts or touching the ground with your feet to stabilise the bike. Instead individual or group of individuals ( I believe it's called peloton) reach the ASL or stop line and perform this wiggly flamenco like dance routine constantly moving few inches back, forward and to the sides for several minutes, often with their pelvis in unflatteringly tight lycra shorts dry humping in the air.

Ah, crap track standing. Proper tack standing should be almost stationary.

You won't see that many people doing it as you have to have a fixed rear hub to do it. Most single speeds use a freehub to allow free wheeling.

 

[platypus]

Moving to the front of the queue, crossing the white line and placing yourself in a position so you can set off and not be impeded or endangered by other motorists.

It's what ASL's (advanced stop lines) are attempting to formalise.

Along with the advanced stop zones that almost always have a car either in them or start to creep in them?

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

I can't find that reference - please can you link or quote it?

Looking for it now. However, there are continual references to mechanically propelled vehicle and motor vehicle which implies a difference.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Along with the advanced stop zones that almost always have a car either in them or start to creep in them?

No, ASLs are the bit where you get to suck on motorbike exhaust.

 

[platypus]

No, ASLs are the bit where you get to suck on motorbike exhaust.

Um, are ASLs not the thing a car should stop at before entering the ASZ if the lights are red.

 

[robj20]

Ah, crap track standing. Proper tack standing should be almost stationary.

You won't see that many people doing it as you have to have a fixed rear hub to do it. Most single speeds use a freehub to allow free wheeling.

You don't, i can do it on my MTB no problem.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

You don't, i can do it on my MTB no problem.

You can move backwards with a free hub?

I can stop and balance on a free hub or creep forward but that's not really track standing. Well, not my definition anyway.

 

[robj20]

Why do you need to move backwards to track stand? I certainly don't, brakes on, bit of pressure through the pedals and balance.

 

[[DOD]Asprilla]

Why do you need to move backwards to track stand? I certainly don't, brakes on, bit of pressure through the pedals and balance.

When it's windy or to take into account the camber on the road. Apply backwards or forwards pressure to maintain position; no brakes.

On the subject of a bicycle being defined as a vehicle I can't find a thing. Hats off.
However, I suspect it will be defined by precedent.