Self Defense in The UK

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A while back I was reading an interesting article about that.

Turns out that owning a dog likely to cause harm to a person, even in self defence, will cause you to be liable to prosecution.

That's why I was reading the other day that you should not have "beware: guard dog" signs at your house. If the burglar was attacked by your dog and you were displaying those signs then they actually have good grounds to prosecute you. On the basis that you were keeping the dog with the intention of having it harm them.
 
I personally like the stand your ground law, as in many of the states in the US. You have no duty to retreat, if in imminent danger. In other words, if a mugger pulls a knife on you, and he gets shot dead, then so be it. Also the Castle Doctrine law, of you may use deadly force if someone invades your home, car or place of work, and you will be free from prosecution.

Its a law that's very tough on criminals. Also despite what you think, in America, if you've been arrested or have a conviction, its near enough impossible to get a gun. Yes you can obtain one from the black market, or perhaps even a gunshow, but if you're caught with one illegally, the penalties are severe. As in yrs in prison. So not worth the risk, if you're just an equiv to a chav.

Who wants a nanny government telling you, you're not allowed to protect yourself or your family? Not me. In England the crooks and crims have the advantage.. In the US, the general law abiding populous, are at an advantage.
 
Why aren't we allowed to carry pepper spray?

It is essentially classes as an acid spray, according to Google.


The correct answer is pepper sprays are classed as a section 5 firearm within the UK putting them in the same arena as a gun (albeit they are a different section of the act) and therefore making them illegal to OWN and not just carry



it is illegal to carry ANYTHING if you intend to use it as a weapon.

3 type of weapon:

Made
Adapted
Intended


Made: Any article designed to be a weapon e.g. Knuckle dusters, batones, throwing stars (always a weapon)

Adapted: Any article modified to be a weapon e.g. bike chain with handle fitted, length of hosepipe with a metal end inserted in it (always a weapon)

Intended: Any article which is intended for a "normal" purpose which is then used as a weapon e.g. baseball bat, bottle, screwdriver, hammer etc (NOT a weapon until it is brandished as such e.g. holding a bottle over your head where it can be implied you are going to strike someone with it)
 
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If I could move, I would.

I would move somewhere, a place that I have the right to shoot the guy stealing the TV in my living room.

The main reason why people irresponsibly use knifes and other weapons, is the fact it is kept from them, a mystery. Bring up a child around knifes, how to use them, maintain them, it becomes a tool. Not a weapon.

And yet those countries where it is legal to carry weapons for self defence tend to be more dangerous to live in...
 
I like that we're not allowed to carry weapons around with us... but I don't like how easily you can find yourself in jail for punching an attacker. Be it in self defence or mild retaliation in the heat of the moment.

Actually it's pretty rare to be put in jail for punching an attacker, that's why it tends to make the news. In point of fact you've usually got to go a long way beyond reasonable before you're in trouble for actions you've taken in self defence. If what you really mean is that you should be allowed to dish out your own retribution after you're no longer in harms way then you might be right and it is more likely to cause issue for you.

I personally like the stand your ground law, as in many of the states in the US. You have no duty to retreat, if in imminent danger. In other words, if a mugger pulls a knife on you, and he gets shot dead, then so be it. Also the Castle Doctrine law, of you may use deadly force if someone invades your home, car or place of work, and you will be free from prosecution.

Its a law that's very tough on criminals. Also despite what you think, in America, if you've been arrested or have a conviction, its near enough impossible to get a gun. Yes you can obtain one from the black market, or perhaps even a gunshow, but if you're caught with one illegally, the penalties are severe. As in yrs in prison. So not worth the risk, if you're just an equiv to a chav.

Who wants a nanny government telling you, you're not allowed to protect yourself or your family? Not me. In England the crooks and crims have the advantage.. In the US, the general law abiding populous, are at an advantage.

Which is why the crime rate is so low in America? Despite having the highest number of people in jail per capita in the World?

Obviously it's up to you (and the country you live in) how you live your life but I'd be wary of presenting America as a great alternative in that regard - it seems that there may well be more violence there but that you've got the right to be more violent back. If that's a victory of sorts depends on your point of view, I'd not always be convinced that I'm willing or able to escalate the situation to a level where I'd consistently win but maybe you are.
 
I personally like the stand your ground law, as in many of the states in the US. You have no duty to retreat, if in imminent danger.
There's no legal duty on anyone to retreat in this country either.

Also the Castle Doctrine law, of you may use deadly force if someone invades your home, car or place of work, and you will be free from prosecution.
The CPS trawled their files in about 2005 or 2006 and found that there had been only 14 prosecutions of residents for attacking intruders since 1986. If you don't chase someone down the street or batter them while they're unconscious, you are virtually guaranteed not to face prosecution. The high-profile cases that upset the media, like Tony Martin and Munir Hussain, were completely justified on the full facts.
 
So it is everyday that I learn about something else that I am not allowed to do, now another one.

It is illegal to carry any Taser or Pepperspray in the UK, regardless of how low the lethality is. I was well aware that high voltage, high current Tasers designed to be lethal are clearly banned.
Regardless of voltage, owning a tazer carries up too 10 years in prison, that is not even DISCHARGING it.

Really though, even peppersprays?

What is our options for self defense? My partner was assaulted 2 years ago, quite badly while on her way to college, the person was wielding nothing more than a Stanley blade.

What options does she/we have to protect ourselves?

It seems the only way we can be safe is to either never go anywhere alone, never go anywhere dark.

Anyone got any ideas?

If the neighbourhood you live in is dangerous then you have to arm yourself especially since Britian has opened her doors to more and more illegal immigrants who come from countries with little or no history on a person's criminal record.

Aikido is great I would highly recommend it to any man or woman to try out.
 
What is our options for self defense? My partner was assaulted 2 years ago, quite badly while on her way to college, the person was wielding nothing more than a Stanley blade.

What options does she/we have to protect ourselves?



Anyone got any ideas?

Self defines/ Martial arts classes. Will take time but at least you will be able to defend yourself. I suggest Aikido.

However, the best option is to run away and live to fight another day. Trouble with having a weapon is that weapon can often be turned on you and used against you. False sense of security.
 
If the neighbourhood you live in is dangerous then you have to arm yourself especially since Britian has opened her doors to more and more illegal immigrants who come from countries with little or no history on a person's criminal record.

Sure. It is 'immigrants' that are to blame. After all, no 'indigenous' Brit would attack somebody.

Good suggestion on Aikido though.
 
I personally like the stand your ground law, as in many of the states in the US. You have no duty to retreat, if in imminent danger. In other words, if a mugger pulls a knife on you, and he gets shot dead, then so be it. Also the Castle Doctrine law, of you may use deadly force if someone invades your home, car or place of work, and you will be free from prosecution.

[..]

Who wants a nanny government telling you, you're not allowed to protect yourself or your family? Not me. In England the crooks and crims have the advantage.. In the US, the general law abiding populous, are at an advantage.

You appear to have been fooled by the ongoing campaign of propaganda and disinformation.

The UK has strong defence laws, up to and including killing in defence of life if that's necessary or happens unintentionally.

You have no duty to retreat in the UK.

The USA does not have the carte blanche for legal killing that you claim it has. Even the states that have castle doctrine laws (and not all of them do) don't just ignore killings when defence is claimed. UK law could be considered a castle doctine anyway - your legal right to use force in defence of self or others is stronger in your own home than elsewhere.

If you look at records of how the law has been implemented in the UK, instead of taking the sustained campaign of disinformation as gospel to be believed without thought, you'll find that the reality of UK law is very different to what you claim it to be and in many ways the opposite to what you claim it to be.

The handful of people convicted of illegally killing after claiming defence were not doing anything any sane person would regard as defence. Battering unconscious people, throwing them in a pit and burning them to death is not defence. And yes, that is a real case. That's the sort of level of psycho violence used by people who were convicted of illegally killing after claiming defence.

The most recent test case involved the deliberate shooting and killing of someone outside of the house the killer was in. It went to court because it was considered unclear of the legal status of doing so. The defendant was acquitted on the grounds that in this context shooting someone through a window and killing them was reasonable force in defence.

The most recent famous case involved someone gathering other like-minded people (i.e. a lynch mob), getting weapons, hunting someone down and trying very hard to beat them to death in revenge. They never even claimed defence because it so obviously wasn't. Yet it was used as "evidence" for the ludicrous claims that you're not allowed to defend yourself at all in the UK, criminals have the advantage and have more rights than law-abiding people, etc.

It's worrying how many people, like you for example, are advocating for UK law to be made far more extreme in its support of killing than it is now. How far do you want it to go? There's already precedence for particularly brutal hunting and attempted murder purely as revenge for tying someone up and threatening them to be legal. The attacker got a 12 month suspended sentence. For hunting a person and particularly brutal attempted murder in revenge. There was widespread support for them to be acquitted entirely, i.e. for hunting and attempted murder in revenge to be legalised.

How much violence do you want? That case I mentioned earlier...what do you think about that one? Do you want to be allowed to throw a burglar in a pit and burn them to death? Just where do you want the line between reasonable force and unreasonable force to be drawn? You claim you want it to be drawn in a far more extreme way than it currently is and the current law allows deadly force in some circumstances, so you must want a very extreme position. Hunting people and killing them in revenge, a good old fashioned lynching? Torturing people to death? Blood feud (i.e. killing family members and not just the person who wronged you in some way)? Where exactly do you want the line to be drawn?
 
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and how exactly would a mugger have known she had a tazer in her handbag, for example? unless you want to go all out and have open carry of weapons, that argument doesnt hold water.

Having a weapon for self defence doesn't rule out her other options of running away/handing her stuff over.
In her situation maybe having a taser wouldn't have altered a thing and she'd still have been mugged because she was caught off guard.

The point is, we should have the choice to carry something, instead of being forced to be this passive sheep society where the answer is always roll over, don't do anything and phone the police.
What good does that do you at the time of the threat/assault!
 
Having a weapon for self defence doesn't rule out her other options of running away/handing her stuff over.
In her situation maybe having a taser wouldn't have altered a thing and she'd still have been mugged because she was caught off guard.

The point is, we should have the choice to carry something, instead of being forced to be this passive sheep society where the answer is always roll over, don't do anything and phone the police.
What good does that do you at the time of the threat/assault!

Thats true, but her having it in her bag would make her hesitate about whether or not to use it, which may well put her in far more danger than if she didnt have it in the first place.

I disagree. and i think the majority of the country think along similar lines. Being able to carry a weapon for self defence creates more problems than it solves..

Those countries where people can carry for self defence have very tooled up criminals who will use their weapons first as a result. We dont have that here at the moment and i think thats a good thing.
 
Thats true, but her having it in her bag would make her hesitate about whether or not to use it, which may well put her in far more danger than if she didnt have it in the first place.

Would it? Do you know her well and how she reacts in a situation like that?
Pure speculation, i could just as easily claim she'd realise that she wouldn't have time to react and hand over her things anyway.

I disagree. and i think the majority of the country think along similar lines. Being able to carry a weapon for self defence creates more problems than it solves..

Those countries where people can carry for self defence have very tooled up criminals who will use their weapons first as a result. We dont have that here at the moment and i think thats a good thing.

We'll have to agree to disagree, criminals are tooled up now because they don't care that it's illegal to carry. The only people who don't carry anything are the law abiding.

The problem with comparing to other countries is that there are so many more factors that influence crime rates than just whether or not self defence weapons are allowed that it doesn't give a very meaningful comparison.
Ideally a country that is very similar to the uk would be needed to show any worthwhile link.
 
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